Hours to level 10 question

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GladDog
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Hours to level 10 question

Postby GladDog » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:54 am

What level in CoH did you REALLY feel like a superhero? For me it was level 12. That was when you could purchase DOs. At that point my joy in playing went way up.

To me, getting to that superheroey feel is very important. So I would like to get there ASAP. Leveling can slow way down after that, but getting to 10 should be quick. I voted 3 hours. My experience in superhero MMORPGs (I've played em all) is that ALL of them let you get to 10 in less than 6 hours.
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Capzlock
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Capzlock » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:34 am

I always loved hitting level 14 on a new character. That was when you got your first real travel power, which made repeatedly dying in the Hollows completely worth it. Then they changed it to where you could get your travel power at 6, which was honestly the most upsetting change for me. It didn't feel like I had to earn my travel power anymore, it was just given to me.

I believe leveling should take time, and that there should be a reward for it. I want to look at high level heroes and be in awe of the amazing things they can do, and use that to motivate myself to fight through a long and difficult road to obtain those abilities.
Being able to do that with the people you meet in-game is the complete MMO experience to me.

Sometimes you'd join in on a lvl 30+ tf and run into a player that you leveled up with in Atlas Park, but now they have a cape and aura along with the powers and knowledge to prove they earned them.

The journey shouldn't be over in a weekend. If the devs make it so that hitting a certain level allows you to obtain something awesome (and even once you hit that level it should be a difficult, time-consuming task to claim that reward) and as long as the gameplay is fun, most of the players are going to be fine with putting in the work to make it there.

Lazarus
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Lazarus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:22 pm

Level 5 was that for me. You had a couple of powers at that point and even a squishy class like a defender could street-sweep and save little old ladies from gangsters. You could really save people and for me that's what it's about.

I do want to play a game where it's not just 'rush to the end game'.

Meridian
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Meridian » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:27 am

Waiting for the travel power was extremely frustrating (especially for all your alts!).
Other than that issue, I don't care what you decide.

I do kind of remember how exciting it was to finally be able to slot powers, so I guess I could second that as well. The sentiment that you want to feel super-heroic pretty quickly is probably correct if you want to hook people.
(Some will be hooked by the character creator, don't skimp there.)


I'm old school so I'm fine with a long, slow leveling curve. If the lower levels aren't fun, why have them?
WoW is the most confusing game of all time, it's all about late/end-game...why spend development resources on anything else?

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GladDog
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby GladDog » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:53 am

I don't care if the leveling slows down once you get that 'superheroey' feel. But not ridiculously long.

My first character in CoH took 623 stupidly frustrating hours of play to get to 50. Part of that was the original level 40 cap, of course. My second took 401 hours. Both of these amounts were too much. Once they changed the leveling curve, doing the regular questlines would get you to 50 in about 240 hours of play, which seems about right. They never changed this; they just made it easier to power level.

So in short, fast leveling to the superheroey feel, which I would assume is 10 since they are asking., and approximately 200-300 to level cap. At 30 hours a week, 240 hours would take about 2 months.
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Liz
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Liz » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:23 am

I hate rushed games where everything is handed to you on a silverplate (which, to be honest, CoH ended up doing).
As long as it's a fun and interesting game that gives you decent diversity for when you level up alts.

I want a game where levelling is JUST as important as the endgame, if not more so.

I got extremely bored by alt-levelling in SWTOR, but I'm having none of those problems with GW2. The fact that the maps are scaling you to level helps too.

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GladDog
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby GladDog » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:36 am

I don't like furious leveling either, but I always look at the first few levels for any character as tutorial levels anyway. That is when you are learning your character and getting to see the best powers and such, and most importantly what makes the character fun for you. That is when you truly feel superheroey in a superhero game. For most games that is around level 10. So I see no reason to take forever to get there.

30 hours a week is actually a lot. Most people will invest that or even more when they first start playing a game. But then they slow down until it is more like 20 hours. that would drive the time to cap to 3 months. If you are like me and will have 4 characters (Tank, Melee DPS, Healer and Ranged DPS), that is a year invested.

Think about it; 56 hours sleeping, 40 working, 20 work invested [traveling, prepping clothing, lunch, etc), 14 in general living (showers, meals, laundry etc) - that leaves 38 hours. If you have a family (like me) and pets (like me) and real life interests (like me), then 20 hours a week is about it, and some weeks it will be less than 10 hours. It will likely take me a year and a half to two years to level cap my basic 4 at 240 hours each. Will I still be playing this 18 months later? It depends on how fun Heroes and Villains is.
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Griffin
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Griffin » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:07 pm

For us it was all about the journey. As it is with most comic book stories. It is the journey that defines them, the failures with not being powerful enough, and the best times weren't all crammed at the end, it was succeeding as a group without being 'Epic' heroes.

But the CoH community served many different groups. Some enjoyed the endgame, some had 100 toons all under 30, some had 2 toons and RP'd for hours. It served many functions. I suspect the PVP group will want faster leveling to get to "combat ready" state sooner, and PVE only will prefer more time in the journey. (This is only my OPINION based on PVP and PVE people I've met and talked to and of course is not representative of every case.)

TL;DR:
A decent length enjoyable journey, where your effort MEANS something, but not so onerous of a journey that I can't feed my Alt-itis habits. I'd prefer NOT to see power leveling team broadcasts all day (or gold farmers).

-Griff

Wing Leader
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Wing Leader » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:27 pm

I think the long, meticulous journey to superhero mastery feels rewarding the first couple of times you go through it, but after that it is only natural to want to fast-track the process. Once you've mastered the fundamentals of the game, retreading the same content at the same glacial pace starts to become tedious.

There's got to be a reasonable middle-ground between forcing players to earn their stripes and play each powerset enough to truly understand how to use it, and letting players breeze to the level cap in a day.

brawlizard
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby brawlizard » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:55 am

Once you've mastered the fundamentals of the game, retreading the same content at the same glacial pace starts to become tedious.
The answer to this is to have more leveling content. THIS is what CoH did well.

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Wulfman
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Wulfman » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:36 pm

What level in CoH did you REALLY feel like a superhero? For me it was level 12. That was when you could purchase DOs. At that point my joy in playing went way up.

To me, getting to that superheroey feel is very important. So I would like to get there ASAP. Leveling can slow way down after that, but getting to 10 should be quick. I voted 3 hours. My experience in superhero MMORPGs (I've played em all) is that ALL of them let you get to 10 in less than 6 hours.
For me, I felt like a hero at level 6 initially...because I could fly!

Wing Leader
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Wing Leader » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:48 pm

Once you've mastered the fundamentals of the game, retreading the same content at the same glacial pace starts to become tedious.
The answer to this is to have more leveling content. THIS is what CoH did well.
It did to an extent. As long as you chose a different origin type each time, you ended up traversing a different mission tree (with some overlap) for the first dozen levels or so. But in Hazard Zones, there was usually only one (maybe two) mission chains to pursue. I mean, how many times did you do the bloody Frostfire mission?

Unfortunately, after Galaxy City was mothballed and all starting characters were channelled down the same mission tree, all that variety went away for the most part.

Remember, CoH was a game that made creating alts an addiction. Players inevitably replayed the same missions over, and over, and over, at a pace no dev team could hope to keep up with. Some form of fast-tracking for highly experienced players could be a Good Thing for the game.

MrFreedom
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby MrFreedom » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:17 pm

For me, it depended on what I was playing.

Tanks almost always felt like a hero at 10 and below.

While my controller didn't start feeling super strong till 16 or 18, I can't remember.

So I guess what I am saying, Pure dps classes and tanks always feels stronger lower levels (in CoH to me) while the support classes needed a bit extra levels. Which I thought was fine. I always felt more accomplished when I played my Fire Fire troller, or dark dark defender, than my Tank or pure dps class. But as far as the Hours to Level 10. If level 10 is where we get a real superhero feel, I would say 3 hours. After that as long as it flows and doesn't turn into a grindfest like Archage or Tera. I am fine with max level taking a while.

Rune
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby Rune » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:35 am

Assuming a final level cap of 50, I'd have chosen "Two" hours if it had been available, and took three as the lowest option. Adults with lives just don't have the same time to commit to games as young people. :)

I suspect anything past ten is going to start taking longer and longer no matter how many missions and arcs you complete anyhow, and I'm not in favor of the DCUO "done in 2 day" cap, nor the "Done in one week or less" of Champions Online [ if you try at any rate], both of those are just too fast in my humble opinion, but 600 hours to cap is way, way too much. Especially if you like to alt [and I'm fairly sure it's a very common trait among super hero gamers.] :mrgreen:

I really liked someone's comment about about it being more about the journey than arriving at the cap, and then "gearing up for endgame" I'm actually not a big fan of end game gear treadmills at all. I have the most fun as I'm leveling up, and always sort of have something to look forward too on my character just on the horizon. When the leveling part is done and it's just about tweaking gear or enhancements or whatnot, I get kind of weary of it all, unless it's a character who's gameplay and story really hit all the right notes for me.

I had a lot of level capped alts in CoH, the first took me over a year, but after that I got them faster and faster [and faster after Mission architect, heh.. Not that I tried, it was just easier to level after the level curve re-balance that came along in that patch or thereabouts]. but only four to six of them were really kitted out in great frankenslotted enhancement sets for maximum defense and offense and so on. it was just too much fiddly BS to fight with for all those characters, and way way too expensive for the mats to just try to buy all the stuff you needed instead.

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JestersGhost
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Re: Hours to level 10 question

Postby JestersGhost » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:49 am

I played from beta to shutdown and only ever had two characters at level 50. I think I got a villain to 45-ish.

Why?

Because I pretty much only played those two characters. I had a tonne of alts, but none were ever as fun to play as my two mains, so I loved the incarnate system, as it it let me fine tune and specialise my characters that much more, and rewarded me for continuing to play them (which I was doing anyway, but this way was even more fun :) )

Being able to level quicker would have helped, I think - it took me several years to get to 50 (pretty sure my first toon didn't hit 50 until after CoV was released), and that meant most of my alts just got abandoned around level 25 or so. I'd be happy for it take me a couple of months of real life, given a few hours each day, which works out around 200-ish I guess.

More than that and my alts will end up discarded and forgotten again.
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