Team size Question

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Gamegod
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Team size Question

Postby Gamegod » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:05 am

Hi everyone, I know the Devs have talked about having team size up to ten players. I just want to point out that trying to get a full team can be a very grueling prospect. I foresee SOH having a population far less than COH. COH had a regular team size max of 8 players. I remember broadcasting and sending many private tells for long periods time waiting to fill those teams; only to settle and go in the mission with 4,5,or 6 players. So imagine the difficulty of getting a full size 10 man team in SOH. I hope the population of our game is massive, but I think it will not be as large as other mmos. What do you think?
Never say too much; always say enough. :roll:

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NightWolf
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Re: Team size Question

Postby NightWolf » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:26 am

I prefer to have a team of max 8 people, at least for regular missions and stuff. It's easier to communicate and to keep an eye on each other, especially from a healer point of view. Also you don't want too many people crammed up inside a building. And like Gamegod mentioned, filling a team in COH was challenging sometimes. The more people in 1 team also means less teams

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Warhead
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Warhead » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:37 am

I found it a little chaotic sometimes and usually like smaller teams of 4-6 myself.

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lunawisp
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Re: Team size Question

Postby lunawisp » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:44 pm

Large teams are fine if you have large areas to play in. If you're crammed into a narrow corridor with a dozen other people all shooting off fancy effects with tens of thousands of particles flying all over the place and masses of confusing noises, it all gets a bit too much. You find yourself standing there furiously hitting attack buttons with little idea what you're hitting - if anything. That happens in modern MMO's sometimes. In certain circumstances, I've spent most of a fight watching the text rather than the rest of the screen, just to see if I'm actually damaging anything!
lunawisp was my Peacebringer in City of Heroes - she lives on in memory as my gaming id.
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Consultant
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Consultant » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:15 pm

A couple of things. First, COH had many servers; we plan to have one. In COH each server was a little world -- you could not jump servers to join a mission on a busy one, for example.

Secondly, we plan to have small incentives to lead teams, and to have larger teams. Maybe that won't hav much of an impact, but maybe it will.

Third, Missions and rewards scale to the size of the team. You won't be crippled if you try a mission with 4 or 6. Basically there seems to be a concern that a smaller team cannot do a mission that is also do-able by a team of 10. No, we're not going that way. There is no penalty for smaller teams, if a team size of ten is an option on the menu.

SwitchFade
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Re: Team size Question

Postby SwitchFade » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:01 pm

A couple of things. First, COH had many servers; we plan to have one. In COH each server was a little world -- you could not jump servers to join a mission on a busy one, for example.

Secondly, we plan to have small incentives to lead teams, and to have larger teams. Maybe that won't hav much of an impact, but maybe it will.

Third, Missions and rewards scale to the size of the team. You won't be crippled if you try a mission with 4 or 6. Basically there seems to be a concern that a smaller team cannot do a mission that is also do-able by a team of 10. No, we're not going that way. There is no penalty for smaller teams, if a team size of ten is an option on the menu.
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Gamegod
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Gamegod » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:35 pm

Thanks for the more elaborate explanation to my question Consultant . I am one who would prefer a smaller max regular team limit say 8 man. IT would definently make the healer position more enjoyable. I posed this question because usually I am the leader of the team...and hearing all the requests for make sure you get a tank, a good healer, a troller all are aimed at me. It was tough enough filling an 8 man squad. I just don't want to have that same aggravation in SOH.
Never say too much; always say enough. :roll:

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JestersGhost
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Re: Team size Question

Postby JestersGhost » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:44 pm

I know it's not a complete solution, but basically anybody saying that didn't understand the game :) I've run 8-man tank/scrapper teams in CoH and we steamrolled. Hopefully with a bit of education people won't insist on such silliness :P
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

Consultant
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Consultant » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:45 am

I think there may be some subtlety involved with the language. There's a big difference between "team sizes of up to ten are supported" and "team size of ten is required for some content." We are planning for the former.

Again, I refer to the ITF as an example. In the ITF a team size of eight was really "required," since if you started with eight and three dropped, it was not always possible to complete the TF with the remaining five. That's not where we want to go. We'd like the missions to adapt more actively to the size of the team.

Teams sizes have been falling for years in MMOs. We want to give the option back to form a larger team if the player want to do it, but not constrain gameplay. We'll see if we can achieve this goal.

Ask yourself this question: if we suddenly said that maximum team size would be six, what advantage would you gain? If you answer that now it is easier to form the team and just launch, I say that this is not true. You can always form the team of six and just launch. Removing the option to add more players to your team of six does you no good at all.

Unless the mission cannot be balanced for a larger team, which does not seem likely to us today.

Dying Breath
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Dying Breath » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:01 pm

One thing I loved about CoH was that you could just recruit the first seven people to respond and roll. Perhaps not at MAX XP/sec, but with some cooperation, pretty much anything could be accomplished. And if you didn't get seven responses, then for anything that wasn't a TF, then just rolling with what you had was perfectly fine too.

Also note: the most fun teams that I played on were the most unbalanced. 8 defenders? Cool. 4 Tanks, 3 Blasters and 1 (lol) Peacebringer? Good times. 8 Blasters? Well... as long as we get everything in the first volley...

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Eulb
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Eulb » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:28 pm

Stick with 10 for the team size ... you don't have to fill all ten slots to enter the mission ... and most of us will have at least 10 in our " Ship Super Groups " ( SSG ) and to play with the whole SSG at once oooh fun
Let the bright stars ahead guide your journey

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Zagadka
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Zagadka » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:35 am

Going to the other extreme.... support for even 2-3 person teams would be nice. Sometimes you're just going along with a friend, especially if they are going to be leveling a support class, and you don't want to wait for a pickup group.

EDIT: I realized that my statement sounded idiotic. Support for 6 player teams would include 2 player, right? Don't think so. What I meant was content that scales to the smaller team size. Jumping between soloing and a full team is inconvenient sometimes.

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JestersGhost
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Re: Team size Question

Postby JestersGhost » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:22 pm

That's what Consultant was saying above - missions will smoothly scale to match whatever the current team-size is. If you're only playing with a couple of friends the missions will resize the enemy groups appropriately.
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

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Jasix
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Jasix » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:34 pm

My desired team size depends on a few things; my mood and what I am trying to achieve. If I am just casually doing missions then a team size of 2-10 would be fine. If I am wanting to team up with friends/SG members then as many as possible is what I would like (10). Then there are times me and friends would push the limits of what we could do - 2 man ITF, 3 man STF, etc. Some of my favorite memories are the challenges we put ourselves through with 2-3 man TFs.
Fav 3 man STF - Ill/Rad troller (me), Ill/Kin troller, and Fire/Psi blaster.
Fav 2 man ITF - Elect/Dark brute and Fire/Time Corruptor (me)

I also liked league play a lot as well; especially BAF and Mag trials.
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Vanishingpointe
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Re: Team size Question

Postby Vanishingpointe » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:44 am

Maximum team size is not troublesome as long as the system to scale enemies is appropriate for teams of fewer than ten and difficulty (if that is an available option) is calibrated well. I think the concern that some people are expressing, that filling a team to capacity consistently was difficult, is less of a mission/team mechanic and more of a social system mechanic. CoH had a very basic team building mechanic, basically consisting of chat channels and player finder. It was not an elegant solution. This is where SoH can improve greatly on the original. Many modern games have more streamlined tools that making partying up easier than using PMs and zone shouts.

Groups will probably, at their most basic, consist of the good ‘ol fashioned private invite party. Many MMOs are making use of zone-specific and instance-specific open groups for public events. Additionally, a more robust interface that allows open groups to advertise available slots, objective (task force, plot, zone objective), and desired roles would go a long way in making partying easier.

I have hopes that the sidekick/exemplar system will make a return in some form, which would greatly expand quality of life on servers by opening partying availability across level bands.


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