Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Consultant
Posts: 1866
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 pm

Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Consultant » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:54 am

Here's a question for the community. I read somewhere that COH had 6,000 actual missions when the game closed. That figure does not include the AE or any street sweeping activity.

But how many defined missions (go to the door, go inside, do heroic stuff, or "defeat ten Skulls") did COH have on launch day?

And now, 15 years later, how many defined missions should we strive for on launch day?

Pyrion
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:31 am

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Pyrion » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:22 am

I don't know how much CoH had, but i can comment about how much you should have.

It really depends on how your mission system works. If missions will be procedural and templated (to a degree) then you will have more variety and therefore will need less mission templates, but every new template will be more work than in the other case. If missions are static you will need a lot more of them. With static missions you really need a lot in order to not become bored. With procedural missions you will need to have a great system so that each mission will seem to be very different than the others.

Another question is the scalability of missions. Will they target a very specific level range?

I think i would like to have at least 10 different missions available to me for any given level. And the types or templates should change during my career.

Consultant
Posts: 1866
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 pm

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Consultant » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:53 am

Right now, most missions will not be procedural, but we may add something like the old radio mission idea which could be procedural as an addition.

There's a story to be told in the missions, and procedural generation does not give the best support to story, in our opinion. At least for some of the missions.

We're still discussing the issue of linking missions to character level, at least generally. We like the idea, but it does create a need for more mission content, as you have noted. But since we want to have side-kicking too, it seems like a good idea.

But back at COH -- didn't the game launch with 30 levels of player advancement? And then go to 40? How many defined missions were in that initial mix?

User avatar
GladDog
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Pottstown PA

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby GladDog » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:07 am

CoH launched with 40 levels of player advancement - barely. There were a couple of storylines after 30, involving Crey aqnd Freakshow, but there waqs not enough to level strictly on story. You had to grind after 30 if you wanted to level cap! Founders Falls and Crey's Folley were the best grinding spots, but there was a lot of dying in those too, unless you were an invul tank set up to take ZERO damage! Yep, zero damage... those were the days...
IN BRIGHTEST DAY, OR DARKEST NIGHT
NO SPAM SHALL STAY UPON THIS SITE
FOR THOSE THAT FEED THIS EVIL BLIGHT
BEWARE THE PAIN OF GUARD DOG'S BITE!

User avatar
PowerAce
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: Northen Kentucky

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby PowerAce » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 pm

unless you were an invul tank set up to take ZERO damage! Yep, zero damage... those were the days...
Glad, you just reminded me of the water Way in Founders and tanking +10 Circle of Thorns at level 27 for a +5 pick up group. Before the purple patch. Sigh. Those were the days indeed.

After months of beta, street sweeping was still a thing at launch. In higher levels the missions from your contacts would just run out before you reached the requirements to be Introduced to your next set of contacts and task forces didn’t fill the gap because they either wouldn’t start or the contact would bug out after one or two missions.
It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be.

User avatar
GladDog
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Pottstown PA

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby GladDog » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:06 pm

Here's a question for the community. I read somewhere that COH had 6,000 actual missions when the game closed. That figure does not include the AE or any street sweeping activity.

But how many defined missions (go to the door, go inside, do heroic stuff, or "defeat ten Skulls") did COH have on launch day?

And now, 15 years later, how many defined missions should we strive for on launch day?
If I remember correctly, there were not many story arcs at all. There were plenty at low levels, (AP, GC and KR) an adequate number at mid levels (StC and SkC) and barely enough at 20-30. After 30 it was time for the street sweeping shoes!

There were about 7 arcs for 1-6 (five of which were origin arcs), about 5 for 7-11, about 6-7 for 12-20, about 7-8 for 21-30 (barely enough to get you most of the XP you needed to get to 30, and about 8 for 31-40 (about half what you needed, although you could stretch them out with TFs and paper missions and mostly do missions to 40). If each arc had 5 missions (probably generous) that would be... 175 missions or so. But, that was to the level cap of 40 when it took over 400 hours to get there. 175 was not enough, you needed to run TFs and paper missions to get to the cap strictly with missions.
IN BRIGHTEST DAY, OR DARKEST NIGHT
NO SPAM SHALL STAY UPON THIS SITE
FOR THOSE THAT FEED THIS EVIL BLIGHT
BEWARE THE PAIN OF GUARD DOG'S BITE!

User avatar
Eulb
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:57 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Eulb » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:46 pm

YOU got me i don't know how many mission were available at COH at launch ... but being that i got there 3 weeks after launch ... i never really paid attention to the count of missions... I was just to flabbergasted to be in a game and being immersed in the roll-playing , teaming with other heroes , and trying to learn how to play ... SO that is what I'm looking to experience in the launch of SOH ... just enjoying the immersion into the ship experiment .
Let the bright stars ahead guide your journey

Pyrion
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:31 am

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Pyrion » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:13 am

Right now, most missions will not be procedural, but we may add something like the old radio mission idea which could be procedural as an addition.

There's a story to be told in the missions, and procedural generation does not give the best support to story, in our opinion. At least for some of the missions.

We're still discussing the issue of linking missions to character level, at least generally. We like the idea, but it does create a need for more mission content, as you have noted. But since we want to have side-kicking too, it seems like a good idea.
Designed missions are best obviously. Having enough of them will be a lot of work though. Maybe a mix would be best, do some really cool story like mission arcs and on top of that radio missions to fill the gaps. Radio missions will buy you time to flesh out the real missions.

Consultant
Posts: 1866
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 pm

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Consultant » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:47 am

Pyrion, you are right, of course. We're just trying to figure out which systems need to be completed to get us to where we want to go. There's a lot of planning needed to make a new MMO. We can't just buy assets, toss them into a level, write four missions and call it good. :) Not that you suggested that, of course.

Setting the benchmarks for what we all want to have, to see a really great game get launched is the trick. So all of this feedback is super. Thank you.

User avatar
Nephthys
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Nephthys » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:23 am

Right now, most missions will not be procedural, but we may add something like the old radio mission idea which could be procedural as an addition.

There's a story to be told in the missions, and procedural generation does not give the best support to story, in our opinion. At least for some of the missions.

We're still discussing the issue of linking missions to character level, at least generally. We like the idea, but it does create a need for more mission content, as you have noted. But since we want to have side-kicking too, it seems like a good idea.
Designed missions are best obviously. Having enough of them will be a lot of work though. Maybe a mix would be best, do some really cool story like mission arcs and on top of that radio missions to fill the gaps. Radio missions will buy you time to flesh out the real missions.
There is no "obvious" best, everything is personal preference. For example - I prefer procedurally generated random quests to story quests. I usually completely ignore story quests in games in favor of random repeatable ones, so a game with all story missions would/does bore me silly.

Pyrion
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:31 am

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Pyrion » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:15 am

There is no "obvious" best, everything is personal preference. For example - I prefer procedurally generated random quests to story quests. I usually completely ignore story quests in games in favor of random repeatable ones, so a game with all story missions would/does bore me silly.
I think there is a misunderstanding here. In a practical sense i actually agree with you. Procedural missions, if done well, will give you an endless supply of missions that are not just repeats. But imagine if you could have so many designed missions that you would never have to repeat a single one. That's what i meant. When comparing a single mission to another single mission i would probably prefer a well designed one. But given the constraints of game development i would love to have procedural missions available to me.

User avatar
Nephthys
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Nephthys » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:37 am



I think there is a misunderstanding here. In a practical sense i actually agree with you. Procedural missions, if done well, will give you an endless supply of missions that are not just repeats. But imagine if you could have so many designed missions that you would never have to repeat a single one. That's what i meant. When comparing a single mission to another single mission i would probably prefer a well designed one. But given the constraints of game development i would love to have procedural missions available to me.
I don't think there is a misunderstanding, unless by the term designated missions you have moved away from what you described a few posts back as really cool story like mission arcs. I do not enjoy story missions. I enjoy randomly generated procedural content. It doesn't matter how many story missions you have, I will still take procedural ones over them every time. Really cool story like mission arcs bore me to tears. I want to push a button and go to the randomly generated monsters and kill them, not sit through dialogue and story. Honestly I would call it "suffer through."

If I want a story, I will pull out my gamebooks and dice and make my own. If I'm in a video game, I just want to kill things or make things. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any story missions as I know there are plenty of people who like them. Just that it's not obvious that they are better, because for me at least: they aren't.

User avatar
Galactus55
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:14 pm
Location: Hamilton Ontario, Canada

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Galactus55 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:05 am

Well now this is a good question and great answers. Obviously some of you gents have awesome memory recall capabilities. I just remember at the start just trying not to die. :shock:
For a new MMO just for the start and ease of development lots of short missions, door missions string some together for a TF. Then move on to story missions.

There is so much that can be added after a good quality launch.
My 2 cents ;)
May your frame rate be HIGH
And your Temperature LOW

User avatar
Eulb
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:57 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Eulb » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:51 am

ooooh yeah I have been enriched TY Galactur55 ever little bit helps
There is so much that can be added after a good quality launch.
My 2 cents ;) [/size]
I to was just trying also not to die ... but got past Atlas and then ... into Prez ... well all that changed... :roll: :shock: :lol: ;)

The growth potential is Staggering ... for the Ship Justice... my mind just reels
Let the bright stars ahead guide your journey

Dying Breath
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:20 am

Re: Number of Missions COH Had at Launch?

Postby Dying Breath » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:45 pm

175 was not enough, you needed to run TFs and paper missions to get to the cap strictly with missions.
Note: Paper missions were not a thing until CoV (Issue 6) and their counterpart police radio missions were not available until Issue 8. CoH did have procedurally generated missions after Issue 2, but only in the Shadow Shard, IIRC, and no one ever did them.

IIRC, most contacts had an arc which may or may not have been working at launch, and would also give out five or six one-off missions that they shared with the other contacts of their level range and origin. And yes, we ran out of missions early on making the 33 to 35 and 37 to 40 grind *very* grind-y.

I think that a high priority should be put on a procedural mission generator like the newspaper/police scanner missions from CoH, so that we can have fast action right out of the gate, while simultaneously giving you time to properly craft *good* story missions (please no more "Your Statesman is in another castle." Ugh.) I am totally on-board with defined missions that tell a story, but I think a lot of the appeal of being a superhero is mindlessly whomping a bunch of ne'erdowells without the need for a lot of exposition.


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests