Pay to Play

Wing Leader
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Wing Leader » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:41 pm

I can only speak for myself, but I was quite happy with CoH's original subscription model. I gladly paid $15 a month to play that game. I got more entertainment value for my $ from CoH than any other form of entertainment I can think of. I would have no problem paying a subscription fee again for a game as fun and addictive as CoH.

I also agree with the sentiments expressed above that F2P is a death sentence for any good MMORPG, especially if it first establishes a strong, mature player base through a subscription model. One of the reasons CoH was so great early on was that it was built by a community of primarily adult players who took the genre seriously and weren't prone to adolescent behavior. It made teaming up a joy, something that no other MMORPG has ever replicated IMO.

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Bacteria
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Bacteria » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:19 pm

I honestly prefer a buy to play model. Maybe with an in game cash shop. I think Guild Wars 2 & ESO are on the right path. Personally I don't mind paying a monthly subscription fee as long as updates and content are frequently added.
+1 for this... I tend to stick around in MMOs a LOT longer when I can pay for the ability to play the entire game, front-to-back. Microtransactions are fine, provided they're for cosmetic items, and for OPTIONAL things that add to my overall experience. GW2 got it right by putting things like costume pieces, weapon skins, and things like XP boosters in the cash shop, but NOT including things like actual weapons or armor, special zones, or anything that would hinder your ability to team with friends on missions (at least until they introduced the paid expansion... which, hey, killed the game for me... just saying).
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Griffin
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Griffin » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:12 pm

I really don't like the micro-transaction flooding in Free to Play.

Subscription based, or Base game + paid for expansions are both fine to me.

Micro/Cosmetic transactions (or mini-boosters) are all fine, (Just NOT buy to win stuff...)

Spouse and I both really liked the "Booster Packs" that had multiple costume components/effects/auras. It helped enhance any of the light RP or concept characters. (Tuxedos/Wedding gear? Yes plz)

As others have said, as long as the purchases are primarily aesthetic and do not generally affect game mechanics? Go for it.

-Griff

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OhhPaigey
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby OhhPaigey » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:41 pm

I would rather a model like Path of Exile's, or World of Warcrafts.

F2P w/ a cosmetic cash shop only. Or P2P.

Chuckers611
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Chuckers611 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:09 pm

I can only speak for myself, but I was quite happy with CoH's original subscription model. I gladly paid $15 a month to play that game. I got more entertainment value for my $ from CoH than any other form of entertainment I can think of. I would have no problem paying a subscription fee again for a game as fun and addictive as CoH.

I also agree with the sentiments expressed above that F2P is a death sentence for any good MMORPG, especially if it first establishes a strong, mature player base through a subscription model. One of the reasons CoH was so great early on was that it was built by a community of primarily adult players who took the genre seriously and weren't prone to adolescent behavior. It made teaming up a joy, something that no other MMORPG has ever replicated IMO.
Count me in on the subscription bandwagon. I play CoX as subscription until the end. I also did some micro transactions, but I think the F2P player base is much less mature and their main goal is to max a character and dump the game. If this game has updates every few months, like chapters in a book, then subscription is perfect. If they were to add another 'City Ship' (i.e. like City of Villains), I would gladly pay for that.

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Silverphish
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Silverphish » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:25 am

I think the subscription model is the best one for the health of the company, given the nature of MMOs. Buy-to-play works best for titles that are intended to be "the hit of 2018" and are then expected to fade out and be replaced by something else. You don't need a constant cash flow for those games because once they're finished, they're finished.

Subscriptions allow for a more stable and predictable financial foundation. For me, I sometimes go months at a time where I take breaks from MMOs, but I continue to pay my subscription regardless (if they offer one). Again, that decision is a philosophical one about maintaining the things that I want to keep around. If you aren't motivated to do that, you can always choose to pause your subscription if you are taking time off, but why prefer a payment model that would rob the company of the additional revenue that people like me are willing to pay? (I was happy that CoX kept the ability to have a subscription after they went went Free-to-play)

When talking about "supporting this game", regardless of what game is being discussed, what it all boils down to is keeping the development company financially viable. The more financially stable they are, the better this game can get. If they are left wondering if they will make enough buy-to-play sales next quarter to keep all of the staff, you can imagine that all future development plans would tend to be quite conservative. I don't want that.

Also, it's not prudent to base your choice of payment model on a game that currently has millions of players. When you have a huge audience, you get a lot more flexibility on what revenue plans will actually work. Of course, I would love SoH to be one of those multi-million user base games, but right now it isn't, and there is no guarantee that it will be.

So those are my latest thoughts. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but subscriptions just seem to make the most sense to me. Maybe there is so much free content out there that a subscription game can't attract enough fans to "make it" any more. So be it. If it can't make it with subscriptions then I probably don't want to play it, because I don't like games that constantly try to sell you things and show you advertisements. In my opinion it makes for a trashy feeling experience.

Pyrion
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Pyrion » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:02 am

Pantheon, another game in pre alpha that i am following at the moment, has the right idea i think.

They will let you play for free for the first let's say 10 levels with some other limitations as well, and from there on you will have to pay a monthly subscription. That way people can try the game without a risk and you still don't have all the problems that a free to play model has.

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Cranos
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Cranos » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:16 am

Pantheon, another game in pre alpha that i am following at the moment, has the right idea i think.

They will let you play for free for the first let's say 10 levels with some other limitations as well, and from there on you will have to pay a monthly subscription. That way people can try the game without a risk and you still don't have all the problems that a free to play model has.
WoW does the same thing but to level 20 and then you have to pay but I rather like this idea as well :)

Lazarus
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Lazarus » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:13 pm

I agree with Silverphish about subscription. I'll also add that in games where you pay once and play forever, devs have the incentive to put getting new people to play above keeping current players happy. On the long term, this tends to make good games corrode as the community is constantly degrading due to long-standing players leaving in disgust over whatever hot new fas the devs implemented without asking the community first. Subscription doesn't have that problem though because current players give just as much money as brand-new players, so one group doesn't destroy the other.

Just a thought :)

Wing Leader
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Wing Leader » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:04 pm

I'm not convinced that the game needs to offer free trial periods. But if it absolutely has to happen, maybe do what CoH did in its early days which was to have a free trial code in each purchased copy of the game. That allows each paid player to turn a fence-sitter onto the game, but doesn't open up the game to currency farmers and other undesirables.

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vladko92
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby vladko92 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:31 am

I think that the best, pay option would be B2P aka Buy to Play with a Subscription Possibility.

You buy the game once for lets say 20$, and then you can play it, however if you want to level faster, progress throughout the game more actively, then a Subscription is available, for example 15 bucks for a month. You get double or triple experience, you get cash shop currency (pretty much like what SWTOR have, 500 points per month as a gift). You have access to all future content (which means new DLC's, new powers, etc.) You can expand your inventory with in-game currency (or with cash shop points , of course for a small fee, if you are B2P).

Or consider something like you give 20$, and with those twenty dollars you get the game, you get cash points, you get more experience, and 1 month of subscription, if you want the pluses to be kept you have to continue to pay monthly subscription or you can continue as b2p, but you won't gain as much experience as you used to, while you were in your free monthly subscription. As well when you are subscriber, you will have unlimited access to raids, while when you are b2p, you will have limitations. Or to not overplay the game, you can make those with subscription to have triple more access to raids, until they reach their limit for the week or for the day.

This way the developers, will definitely have certain income with the game release and of course a future income for those who decide to progress throughout the game faster. Or gain end game gear without limitations in their runs.

Bleeze
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Bleeze » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:28 pm

Not sure if I missed this but a EVE Online model is the best thing I have ever seen. PLEX Pilot License Extension is great. It allows those with real world $$$ and not much time to play to buy them and sell them in game for game money and the opposite is also true you have tons of time and play like crazy you can play for free by buying the PLEX off the person that doesn't.

Hero Licenses

I have come to love this model. Its the best of both worlds because it offers both to the player base. Whether you have loads of cash or loads of in game money you can choose and best of all the game doesn't suffer because everybody still pays $X a month.

SlyGamer5679
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby SlyGamer5679 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:24 pm

I played CoH a long time ago i started playing with it had a monthly sub but i took a break since i was paying for other MMO's around the same time and price and started playing on and off with paying for subs but once it went buy/free to play that's when i really sunk a lot of time into it.
even now i started playing Guild Wars 2 again since it was pure buy to play and i picked up where i left off, so i'd prefer a game like this to be a Buy to Play, i did buy a lot of booster packs on CoH because i didn't have to pay a monthly sub so i was still supporting CoH and enjoyed the game even bought the going rogue expansion and played for awhile before the game was shut down. I really hope this game will be a bigger success then CoH was and i will finally get the scratch that super hero itch i have.

brawlizard
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby brawlizard » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:27 am

Let's be honest with ourselves, going F2P had nothing to do with the death of CoH. Both the f2p and closure were business decisions made above the heads of the folks in NorCal.

The game never sat well with the korean market, ncsoft had 3 other massive games coming out at that same time that were testing well in the korean market, and the cost of keeping a branch in NorCal (vs other domestic and overseas markets) was draining the company with only a small % of their total revenue.

Yes the game was still viable and yes the game was still profitable, but ncsoft will always be a korean company first.

So let's not take CoH and its demise into the discussion about viable and non-viable business models for MMOs.

GW2, ESO and NW have all shown that buy to play and freemium models can work. They do favor people who like to jump from game to game, but so what, with a properly balanced sub/vip model ontop of that you will always have a strong core.

Wing Leader
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Re: Pay to Play

Postby Wing Leader » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:30 pm

I guess it depends on what one means by "demise". There was the final demise when NCSoft chose to shut it all down despite the fact that it was making money for them (it simply wasn't making enough money for them). But long before that the game was in the throes of a different kind of demise: the demise of its soul, formed originally by the mindset and character of its core player base in its early years.

The F2P initiative helped the game's financial solvency, yes, but it also eroded its most appealing feature: the ability to find like-minded, mature fans of the superhero genre to team up with. With F2P came a horde of players who only wanted to scratch their fantasy or anime itch and tried to turn CoX into WoW or Lineage transported to the modern world. Paragon City looked like a very different world to me after F2P. The CoX I knew died long before NCSoft pulled the plug on it.


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