SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Kid Rad
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SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby Kid Rad » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:32 am

So this is not meant to be a downer thread in any way, but rather to highlight the things about this game that make it unique and more promising than other similar games/projects.

So why will this one be better or more promising then CO or VO or CoT? What does this have going for it that makes you have more faith or be more excited?

kondospl
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby kondospl » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:33 pm

Developers have managed to create an combat system, an giant city, and logical lore, and an active community.

Yeah.... Gives me ALOT of faith into future of the game.

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GladDog
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby GladDog » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:48 pm

OK, this is my expertise. I have played or heavily researched all of the Superhero MMORPGs. I wrote a 4000 word article on this subject on MMORPG.com. I wrote several player guide on the CoH forums, and had well over 2000 posts there. I was a beta to close player of CoH, although I took several breaks.

I was an alpha and beta tester of Champions Online, I probably invested over 400 hours in this game.

I was an early beta tester and very vocal advocate of DC Universe Online, as well as being a moderator and editor on the website DCUOsource.com before it closed.. The only games I am currently player are DCUO and FF XIV. DCUO is the game I have the 2nd most time in vested in after CoH.

I played Marvel Heroes for about 4 months, and while it was cool, I doubt I will ever play it again.

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I'm listing all of this because I wanted you to understand that I really understand the genre, and what I want to see from it.

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CoH was a great game, but it was not perfect, or it would still be running. Far from the dated graphics, there were a number of problems that either were not worth fixing or no one could get approval to fix. All of the successor projects are taking their own routes to solve these problems.

City of Titans looks like an interesting game, but it seems they are making it into a DCUO/ CoH hybrid. That tells me that no matter what they say, they are planning on eventually making a console port. The reason why the Heroes and Villains team split off from CoT was because they were concerned about the 'console-friendly' nature of the game that would limit a lot of playstyle choices, just like it does with DCUO. CoT's solution to the problem of broad appeal is to leave room for a console port. My biggest problem with CoT is that they have so little to show for all of the money they have, especially with art assets. They show a lot of tech demos, but they have yet to have anything with a created character; they are always using built in UE4 assets.

Heroes and Villains has a number of hurdles to get by. They are planning on making the most 'pure' CoH successor. The gameplay, secondary advancement and lore are very CoH-like. However, they are working with a very small crew, no more than 6, and they want to have the game 80% done before they have a kickstarter, which will mean they are in early alpha, i.e. they have a playable game. That is quite noble, but they are also handcuffed by a game engine that is still in development. That means that often they need to stop and wait for the game engine to be further developed. That means the game probably won't even get to the testing stage until 2019 or 2020, which is probably when the game engine, HeroEngine2, will be finished. I wish them the best, but honestly I wish that their team would join the SoH team to put some more top minds on this project. All of their assets could probably be ported to UE4 without too much problem. At any rate, H&V looks very intriguing and if they get a playable version I will at least check it out thoroughly.

Valiance Online. This game has an angel investor or two (I heard a rumor one pulled out) and a successful GoFundMe campaign, as well as a failed Kickstarter, and they are on Steam Greenlight. So I am pretty sure they have the most money to work with of all of the successor projects. But honestly... they don't have much to show for it. The game is using a system similar to Champions Online, with power choices being enhanced with power points, and using enhancements to 'theme' a character. Their building art is good, their environmental art is poor, and their character models look a whole lot like CO's characters. Their character creator is pretty sparse for a game that is close to release. I will check this game out as well, but I don't hold out much hope that it will be a top project. Will it be playable? Yes. And I think it will do well until one of the other CoH spiritual successors release that are a LOT closer to CoH. Then I think they will lose 80-90% of their player base and have to scale WAY back or close. They are using the same game engine as Elder Scrolls Online, but ESO looks way better than this game.

And of course, Ship of Heroes. This project already looks better than CO, and has better character modeling and powersets, along with animations, than CoT. What they have accomplished in about a year is phenomenal in my opinion. Yes, their kickstarter failed, but that was because of KS fatigue and also because the word of mouth had not reached enough people. Once they have more stuff done and have a playable alpha, they will much better exposure and I bet they have a successful Kickstarter. The lore is good, and I love that the devs are earnestly seeking the opinions of the potential players about where the game should go. This will truly be a community driven project, and I have high anticipation for this game. So right now my money is on SoH, and I doubt anything will change that.
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby Codex » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:28 pm

For me, success starts at the senior management and project management level. To have experience people in those areas increases the changes for success. Also, sharing progress with the community increases momentum for the game and generates positive vibes.
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A1fighter
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby A1fighter » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:43 pm

CoT are very wise to want to get the console people on board. I did not know that. Which successor goes to the console is the most promising. Console limitations are real, but developer limitations are realer.

The healthiest superhero mmo is DCUO, and it has PS4 and Xbox support. The one with the console port will outlast the rest, guarantee it. if CoT does do a console port as Glad described, CoT will be the better choice for gamers in general.

That is just my 2 cents, but VO is promising a pet creation system, so they will release around 2025 :lol:

I just cannot fathom how anyone can make a extensive pet creation system like they are describing. Let alone the VO team which has demonstrated a level of inexperienced uncanny for project this far in the development stages. They had a huge leg up on the rest did they not?

SoH should probably strive to do something similar in the future. Allow players to tweak their pets. Would be neato :P

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GladDog
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby GladDog » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:39 pm

Right now DCUO is the only Superhero MMORPG on the consoles, so it has a captive audience. That will change later this year when the port for Marvel Heroes hits for the Xbox One. Shortly after that they will have a port for the PS4. Now, DCUO and MH are completely different games. But the gameplay for MH is going to appeal to a LOT of console jockeys, so DCUO may not have a long future left. I'm not saying it will die immediately, but if they lose a bunch of their console market then they may have to go to maintenance mode until they come up with a new strategy or give up. That is the market that a console port for CoT would be fighting against. And the console players won't tolerate maintenance mode. CoT will need lots of fresh content to have a successful port.

But even at that, it will be a while before CoT even considers a console port. They need to get a working game in front of their target audience on the PC if they want any money at all coming in. I'm not down on the game, just on their progress. They need to scale back their game and hurry up and get SOMETHING in front of those players that three years ago gave them 2/3rd of a million dollars; and not just tech demos.
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Kid Rad
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby Kid Rad » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:32 pm

All valid points here. Now here is a similar but separate question.

First a caveat: I am coming back to the superhero MMO genre from a long break. I played CoH for several years back in the early 2000's, as my introduction to MMOs in general, and stopped well before it eventually went under, probably around 2006ish. I have since played various fantasy MMO's off and on, none of which really filled the same satisfaction that CoH held for me. I just discovered SoH and the various other projects this past week, which put me into a wormhole of searching through all the superhero MMOs out there.

Which brings me to my next question: What will make this better than Champions Online or DCUO? I hear a lot of people talk bad about both of these games, but in very vague terms, and as a newbie returning to this genre, having never had a chance to try these games out myself, I am bit confused as to why they feel this way. I do hope to try at least one of these games out when I have a chance, despite the bad mouthing, but anyone care to elaborate on this subject here, and why a replacement for these two is needed?

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A1fighter
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby A1fighter » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:54 pm

I will try, but it will be simply making an subjective assumption.

CoH set the bar for superhero mmorpg, vast charcter creation, variety of powers, and so on. I did not get an oppurtnity to play it, so I am going by what Youtube offers me.

CoH wasreleased in 2004

Along came CO.

CO followed CoH model but with better creation options and a vaeriety of powers also.

Cons: CO gameplay is shallow.

Pros: Deepest creation system out of the other three, many power and travel options. It has a pet power. You can even have vehicles.

CO was released in 2009

And here comes the most controversial one, DCUO.

This game did not follow the character creation model of CO and CoH. The system is very shallow, there are no body proportions, no layering, no true animal features. basically, you are what you put on.

For example, fat gear will make you fat, you cannot adjust your portions on your own.

A body style with one shoulder pad will make you have varying shoulder options you cannot manually do this on your own

The combat is vastly overrated, the combat is held in high regards because it is available on consoles and played with a controller. The combat is no different than most other action MMO which can also be played with a Xbox controller, but DCUO is probably worst because it feels jerky and slow.

Con: Every damn thing

Pros: I guess Cyborg if I had to pick something, and it has Batman, who does not l;like Batman?

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Nephthys
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Re: SoH vs Other Similar Projects

Postby Nephthys » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:20 pm

DCUO did get one thing right - amazing travel powers, in that they are super fun to play. I can spend hours just using acrobatics and skimming to bounce around the city.


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