What didn't you like in CoH?

slacktech
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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby slacktech » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:07 am

I'm going to potentially cause some disagreement with this comment, but I didn't like the grind required to get items for bases when a SG was a duo. Yes, I know we chose to be a duo, but by Odin's beard it was a true grind to get base items.

Luckily we played about three to four hours around work (after for me and before for my SG partner due to the fact we were on opposite ends of the planet) and probably ten hours total on weekends, so we did get everything we needed eventually, but it was a real grind.

I hope that SoH doesn't repeat that, as it really makes no difference to a player's experience if two different SGs get the same stuff at the same rate, even if they're different sizes. It's not as if Heroic Games are going to put 'super-uber' buff stations in SGs that allow players to get a ridiculous buff (I would imagine).

I would hope SG base items would be cosmetic, storage or transport systems and it shouldn't matter to player experience outside the base if all SGs collect this at the same rate.

Sinistar
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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Sinistar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:11 am

I'm going to potentially cause some disagreement with this comment, but I didn't like the grind required to get items for bases when a SG was a duo. Yes, I know we chose to be a duo, but by Odin's beard it was a true grind to get base items.

Luckily we played about three to four hours around work (after for me and before for my SG partner due to the fact we were on opposite ends of the planet) and probably ten hours total on weekends, so we did get everything we needed eventually, but it was a real grind.

I hope that SoH doesn't repeat that, as it really makes no difference to a player's experience if two different SGs get the same stuff at the same rate, even if they're different sizes. It's not as if Heroic Games are going to put 'super-uber' buff stations in SGs that allow players to get a ridiculous buff (I would imagine).

I would hope SG base items would be cosmetic, storage or transport systems and it shouldn't matter to player experience outside the base if all SGs collect this at the same rate.
Oh I am with you on this. For me it wasn't so much a grind to get the items badges but the prestige needed to obtain them was another matter.

750 PVP kills in SG mode? That wasn't a problem for those that went to warburg to grind PVP rep points for the badges. But getting the 5 million or so in funds? Yeah...that was the problem.

slacktech
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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby slacktech » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:14 am

I also wasn't a big fan of Pocket D. I realise a lot of people loved it, but I found once we got all the teleportation units and beacons in our SG base that it was largely redundant. I realise that it was a gathering spot, and also a launching spot, but I thought it could have been much, much more than it was. It seemed like it was designed to be much more than it was, but somehow got short-changed. Again, just a personal opinion.

I would have no issue if SoH had a 'transit hub' where vendors etc existed (like a Central Station type area) but it doesn't have to be massive with flashing lights and looping dance music. And it can be quite small, as a single tp unit/elevator shaft could take the player anywhere on the ship if needed (thinking on a starship getting from bridge to engineering). It doesn't have to require the player to run 4km to get from one side to another.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Sinistar » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:30 am

I also wasn't a big fan of Pocket D. I realise a lot of people loved it, but I found once we got all the teleportation units and beacons in our SG base that it was largely redundant. I realise that it was a gathering spot, and also a launching spot, but I thought it could have been much, much more than it was. It seemed like it was designed to be much more than it was, but somehow got short-changed. Again, just a personal opinion.

I would have no issue if SoH had a 'transit hub' where vendors etc existed (like a Central Station type area) but it doesn't have to be massive with flashing lights and looping dance music. And it can be quite small, as a single tp unit/elevator shaft could take the player anywhere on the ship if needed (thinking on a starship getting from bridge to engineering). It doesn't have to require the player to run 4km to get from one side to another.
Pocket D was fun most of the time. Didn't like how that Truck map badge was only accessible once per yer though.

Seriously though, they could have left Pocket D a co-op zone, and then moved all the Tailor shops to Pocket D, along with the Vaults for salvage storage, plus have the Spring/Winter Events in there, plus maybe one of the signature heroes like Back Alley Brawler in there to dispense advice after Galaxy City was wiped out.

Also while Nul The Gul was funny, I would have wanted those options in my character option menu instead of visiting the bird to turn off group fly and super speed.

Funny thing, a friend I played with loved masterminds and had group fly for his robot mastermind. He turns off group fly on his character via Nul the Gul, then turns on Group Fly and discovers it made his bots hover but since HE couldn't fly, they all couldn't.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Consultant » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:24 am

Our thinking on SG Bases is still quite early but as a COH palyer I also remember having to make like a dozen extra characters in order to get enough "something" to be able to start a base. Was it some special points of some kind? I'm not sure. Our little group fo three mostly used the base for storing loot, at least at first.

Making it grindy to get the stuff does not sound like fun. At least to me.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Golden Ace » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:09 am

Our thinking on SG Bases is still quite early but as a COH palyer I also remember having to make like a dozen extra characters in order to get enough "something" to be able to start a base. Was it some special points of some kind? I'm not sure. Our little group fo three mostly used the base for storing loot, at least at first.

Making it grindy to get the stuff does not sound like fun. At least to me.
I had a very small base until I got my second account. I always ran on Ace, but with my second account I was able to sidekick one of my characters from it and power level them to level 50 Getting all that extra influence for the Supergroup. Once I was able to do that getting influence for my base became quite easy and I eventually had the largest plot size, and my base looked more like a 50 man Supergroup than a one person Supergroup. I had all the bells and whistle‘s.

Bases never did get the love they deserved
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slacktech
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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby slacktech » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:06 am

Our thinking on SG Bases is still quite early but as a COH palyer I also remember having to make like a dozen extra characters in order to get enough "something" to be able to start a base. Was it some special points of some kind? I'm not sure. Our little group fo three mostly used the base for storing loot, at least at first.

Making it grindy to get the stuff does not sound like fun. At least to me.
I think the in-base currency was prestige, and it was a pain in the proverbial to get it unless you joined a mega-SG and forced your minions... I mean, members, to run in SG mode. These same poor members then had to grovel or deal with SG politics to get access to storage etc. I found it to be the most toxic part of the game experience for me outside of PvP (hence creating a SG with someone I could trust and work with to create a fully featured base). To me it was a grind and definitely not fun.

Edit - added 'outside of PvP'. I should have put that in the first place, given how much I loathe PvP :(

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby GladDog » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:33 am

I had a much better experience with SG bases. I was never forced to do anything, although I always ran my level caps in SG mode. As the game matured the costs of maintaining a base got lower and lower, until our leader told us that there was enough Prestige in storage to keep the base active for over a year. That was with plenty of power, storage all over the damn place, a large personal storage for each member, and teleporters to every zone in the game. Not to mention posters and stickers covering every wall!
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slacktech
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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby slacktech » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:57 pm

I had a much better experience with SG bases. I was never forced to do anything, although I always ran my level caps in SG mode. As the game matured the costs of maintaining a base got lower and lower, until our leader told us that there was enough Prestige in storage to keep the base active for over a year. That was with plenty of power, storage all over the damn place, a large personal storage for each member, and teleporters to every zone in the game. Not to mention posters and stickers covering every wall!
I never had that positive experience when I was a member of a large SG. TP access was allowed, but heaven forbid 'lower' members should ask to have storage or take items in 'communal' storage.

I had a much more positive experience when it was just a duo. And I agree that the devs made it easier and easier as they lowered the prestige needed for base items etc as time went on. By about half-way into the base (between starting it and the game closing) we didn't need to run in SG mode much at all as it more just 'maintenance' as we had everything placed that we needed.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Sinistar » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:55 pm

Our thinking on SG Bases is still quite early but as a COH palyer I also remember having to make like a dozen extra characters in order to get enough "something" to be able to start a base. Was it some special points of some kind? I'm not sure. Our little group fo three mostly used the base for storing loot, at least at first.

Making it grindy to get the stuff does not sound like fun. At least to me.
The currency for paying base rent/upkeep and for obtaining items for the base was Prestige. If you played in Super Group mode, your character from Level 1 to 25 would rake in the prestige then the amount dropped badly after L25.

Unlocking the SG Base badges for the most part wasn't too bad, it was getting the prestige to obtain the items that the badges unlocked.

5 million prestige for the Fusion Generator....after paying approx 500,000 or so for a big enough base lot and the smallest room that was big enough to contain it...

In the end I had the Fusion Generator in my base, the Autonomous Control System, and used the rest of the base for storage and the enhanced teleporter units they released. It wasn't a huge base nor decorated in any way as all the funds went to the items and rent.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Golden Ace » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:47 pm

from what has been described above is one of the reasons I have wanted Personal Lairs along with Super Group Bases.

Super Group Bases and Personal Lair Suggestions

Personal Lairs are where you store your stuff, your trophies, your salvage, etc... Super Group bases are for storing communal stuff along with teleporters, crafting and what not. not a big fan of being in Super Group mode or rather having the ability to turn it off.

If you are a part of a Super Group you are earning for the Super Group. Super Group uniforms are fine and all but they don't make you earn any more prestige than someone who runs around in his own suite. imagine if the justice league of America's colors were red, white, and blue. then imagine, batman, green arrow, booster gold, Aquaman, green lantern etc... having to modify their costumes when teaming up.
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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Sinistar » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:39 am

from what has been described above is one of the reasons I have wanted Personal Lairs along with Super Group Bases.

Super Group Bases and Personal Lair Suggestions

Personal Lairs are where you store your stuff, your trophies, your salvage, etc... Super Group bases are for storing communal stuff along with teleporters, crafting and what not. not a big fan of being in Super Group mode or rather having the ability to turn it off.

If you are a part of a Super Group you are earning for the Super Group. Super Group uniforms are fine and all but they don't make you earn any more prestige than someone who runs around in his own suite. imagine if the justice league of America's colors were red, white, and blue. then imagine, batman, green arrow, booster gold, Aquaman, green lantern etc... having to modify their costumes when teaming up.
Not to mention that the items that cost rent/upkeep didnt make a lot of sense. The only things that should cost rent/upkeep would be the power and control systems, NOT storage bins.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Ridgeman » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:27 pm

Honestly, I was struggling to find something that I didn't like - until Golden Ace's comment.
Over nerfing, Quick fixes, and reducing achievements.

CoH Had a habit of discovering that a power or power set was broken by being overpowered. Then reducing it completely so the power or power set was next to useless. They would do this on the spur of the moment without proper testing. Leaving the power next useless then they would slowly bring it back up.

Toggle drops in pvp, fear in Fire patch, ED, etc..

Or in the case of the ice secondary for tanks the pinnacle power - the last one in the set - Frozen Aura actually did no damage for years and years.
- Thanks for that. I remember ED and - like a lot of others - couldn't stand it. It did take a lot of getting used to, but I did eventually get used to it. Heavy-handed approaches like ED make for less than stellar reviews for dev performance. Was the game playable after that? Sure. With that said, it did get much better with the advent of enhancement sets. I guess the bottom line is, be careful about being so ham-fisted when trying to address issues.

Also - beware of power creep. It happens in every game that I can think of.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby longtallbrad » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:26 pm

I've read most of this thread, and still can't identify anything significant that I really disliked about CoH. I still miss it pretty intensely.

I might have had more to pick at if I had had the personal bandwidth to play it more often. While I played it joyfully for years, at the beginning and and the end I was a grownup with a more-than-full-time job and a spouse and kids. I had to struggle and maneuver to be able to play it for a few hours a week, in contrast to those who played it for several hours a day. I never really had the consistent playing time to get anything out of joining a supergroup, and I generally didn't notice when incremental design adjustments were made. I just...loved the game, and played it when I could for as long as I could.

I know I'm answering a question other than what is being asked here, but something I really hope extends from the COH experience to the SOH experience is the ability to explore and the need to travel (and survive) on the way to missions. I resonated with an earlier post about the thrill of actually making it through the Hollows to the mission door. I dreaded the Hollows, but I spent so much time knocking around in there and scrambling for survival that I kinda really miss it by now. And I LOVED flying, running, or jumping around a new part of the universe just to revel in the design and see what there was to see. The joy the game brought me wasn't all about strategy and ambition and checking boxes. A lot of it was the fun and satisfaction of just...being there.

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Re: What didn't you like in CoH?

Postby Golden Ace » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:31 pm

I LOVED flying, running, or jumping around a new part of the universe just to revel in the design and see what there was to see. The joy the game brought me wasn't all about strategy and ambition and checking boxes. A lot of it was the fun and satisfaction of just...being there.
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