AE Theory

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Golden Ace
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Golden Ace » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:59 pm

I created a few, I didn't like how we were limited to certain landscapes. but I loved creating unique villains for each mission.
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Avatar PDM
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Avatar PDM » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:14 am

I created a few, I didn't like how we were limited to certain landscapes. but I loved creating unique villains for each mission.
I understand what you mean - but like you I was greatful of being able to do it at all - and for me the NPCs and Villains where actually more important than the surroundings.
And I kind of understand the restrictions because I guess it would be to complicated to and to data intense to leave even more open than they already did.
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Consultant
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Consultant » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:30 am

We've been thinking that a lot of the player-designed mission content would come from players writing and adding their own short setting, and then creating a mission by choosing most everything from pull down menus...which map to use, which level of difficulty, what kind of mission, which enemies, which objectives...and then placing the enemies and the objectives on the map.

Is that what you guys are thinking?

Pyrion
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Pyrion » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:40 am

What i am worrying about is the potential for user created missions to generate a lot more XP than standard missions, making them the easiest way of grinding XP. A lot of COH missions were like that, leading to an empty world.

What i would do to prevent this:
Make an arena where people can create missions freely and try them out with friends. Grant no xp for that. Do a review process for those missions and integrate the best ones into a "radio mission"-system and into the actual game. Make it a scheduled thing, like one mission every week, maybe even with some user polling to find good missions.

If users vote for a game breaking mission (lets say something with 100 weak minions every encounter, easiliy killed with AE powers), you reserve the right to adjust them.

I don't think that it is possible to make an automated AE system that will totally prevent every "cheat" that players will come up with. A review process will be needed.

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GladDog
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Re: AE Theory

Postby GladDog » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:27 am

We've been thinking that a lot of the player-designed mission content would come from players writing and adding their own short setting, and then creating a mission by choosing most everything from pull down menus...which map to use, which level of difficulty, what kind of mission, which enemies, which objectives...and then placing the enemies and the objectives on the map.

Is that what you guys are thinking?
Yes, this is my thinking process. I would like to see player designed bad guys, for two reasons; It keeps the situation fresh, by surprising people with unusual foes, and the advantage to the dev team is they get to see different combinations of powers in use, and cherry pick the best bad guys to add to the game later.

As far as content for the supporters beta, I want to see;

1 - the tutorial
2 - radio missions
3 - player made missions (assuming an AE system is ready)
4 - street sweeping
5 - invasion type events

And that is pretty much it. The main line missions and related side missions, which should be about 175-250 hours worth of content, should be saved for release as much as possible. Yes, they need to be tested, but if I am not a tester for a story line I would rather discover it afresh.

I did want to say that if people design their own missions and they use custom bad guys, their XP should be reduced, maybe to half of what an equivalent game-designed bad guy gives. This will stop players from designing farming missions. That said, I am not all that against farming and power leveling, especially early on. If a player wants to fill their 8 (or whatever the number is) slots with level capped characters that they don't really understand how to play, that's their thing. With the early level cap only being between 20-30, a lot of players are going to have multiple level caps whether they power level or not. Also, since the dev team is only planning on augments and temp powers to use as 'gear', there becomes a cap to how powerful you can get. I don't think the CoH team did this intentionally, but that was the result of how they handled 'gear', which is something they broke when they started adding alternate leveling systems...

I think an incarnate system would be a good addition down the road, but there really is no reason to have multiple alternate leveling systems that turn you into a beast if you pay the money or invest the time, like DCUO has.
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olepi
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Re: AE Theory

Postby olepi » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:20 am

I didn't use AE much in CoH. Here are my general ideas:

1) be able to publish your missions, so others can play them. Create a mission, publish it on a terminal, and other people can play it
2) restrict drops, so that the creator of the mission has to provide anything that drops.
3) don't restrict XP, but do restrict how many AE missions can be done in any 24 hour period. That would limit farming.
4) create "training mode" missions. No XP, but you can use them to practice on different types of enemies. No limit on the number you can run.
5) create a points system, so to create the highest-end missions, you need to have collected X number of points, or badges.

This is very similar to the Ryzom Ring. Some of my best times in a MMO was creating a scenario, publishing it, and then ghost-watching other people play it.
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GladDog
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Re: AE Theory

Postby GladDog » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:08 pm

I wanted to add that if a player made mission system is not in place for the supporters beta, I won't be heartbroken. Street sweeping, radio missions and invasion events will keep me wildly happy for months (heck, for years!) to come!
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Red5
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Red5 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:45 pm

What i am worrying about is the potential for user created missions to generate a lot more XP than standard missions, making them the easiest way of grinding XP. A lot of COH missions were like that, leading to an empty world....
Me personally don't see why one would worry about what others are doing to the point of requesting such measures.

Empty world sounds legit but if you consider CoX's history as a bases for comparison... it is a non issue, That is CoH had instanced missions....so the bulk of ppl were in fishbowls and not in the world! This applied to newspaper/radio, the AE, TF's, etc....all fishbowls which goes to show even when there was more than one way not to be in the world...

And yet folks still traveled, visited places, had contest, had theme parties, etc. etc, etc, That is the world never really felt empty,

Tbh, I hope the AE is the best way to grind XP. Not gonna stop me from badge and Easter egg hunting, Not gonna stop me from doing the main story arcs and gobbling up all the lore I can. Not gonna stop me from hanging out, doing raids and TF's

Then again Pyrion, maybe your game experience was different than mine. I did bear witness to populace drops...like ED many a friend left. CoV came out saw a drop as folks went to get there villain on for examples.
...reporting in.

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Re: AE Theory

Postby Consultant » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:35 am

I'm reading this thread and thinking a couple of thoughts. If the COH world was empty, but players were in AE enjoying themselves, it may be a stretch to imagine that without AE they would have been out in the world. They might have just quit the game. And the point about instanced missions is true. Players are all over the game, most of the time, in missions, in tutorials, etc., but not necessarily out on the outdoor streets of the city. Personally, I used to watch TV at night and log into my characters inside the Auction House just to check on stuff I was selling, or hoping to buy.

But if grinding in our version of AE becomes too common somehow, why wouldn't we just limit the XP per minute or XP per hour or something to 90% of the level that instanced missions give?

I'm just thinking out loud with this post, but if player designed missions don't give more XP, but still give some XP, and people want to grind them, doesn't that mean people are having a lot of fun?

Because we're in favor of fun. :)

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indigowulf
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Re: AE Theory

Postby indigowulf » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:37 pm

It wasn't just the xp that made them grind happy- it was slayer badges. 1 million rikti monkeys? no problem! just run this mission 5 times..
Maybe limit mobs counting toward slayer badges to stop the farming issue.
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Golden Ace
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Golden Ace » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:46 pm

It wasn't just the xp that made them grind happy- it was slayer badges. 1 million rikti monkeys? no problem! just run this mission 5 times..
Maybe limit mobs counting toward slayer badges to stop the farming issue.
Good Point. Kills in AE shouldn't count toward slayer badges
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Consultant » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:42 am

It never occurred to me that a player could farm rikti monkeys. I got mine the old fashioned way, in the zone (but on a team).

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Golden Ace
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Golden Ace » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:10 am

It never occurred to me that a player could farm rikti monkeys. I got mine the old fashioned way, in the zone (but on a team).
Wimp. :D

I got mine solo after spending weeks on monkey island.

Also the old fashioned Tanker way. :D

never occurred to me either. honestly not sure if you could. course by the time AE came out I had most of the slayer badges.
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Red5
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Re: AE Theory

Postby Red5 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:03 am

I'm reading this thread and thinking....
my cents... majority of players will gravitate to the easiest way to level...talking primarily alts but even still late comers to the game will be looking for Power Levels and such for their mains.

In that , presuming I am correct, it isn't going to much matter if it is X, Y, or Z way to quickly grind levels because which ever is best/fastest is the one folks will find and utilize. Believe me I have played games where there was no best way to level and players came packing (3rd party) macros to do the grind for them....and that imho is something you don't want for your game.

Me personally hope all ways to level will be "fun".
...reporting in.

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Re: AE Theory

Postby Consultant » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:16 am

Yes, the goal is for there to be many ways to level, and players can perform different content with different toons, as they level up. I think we all like to be able to explore different choices in the leveling process.


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