Concerns for other games question

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GladDog
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Concerns for other games question

Postby GladDog » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:18 am

There are several concerns on that list that are almost universally being ignored by MMORPG companies. I suppose it is because we can live with things like taking forever to fix bugs, and not updating content frequently, but toxic communities are what bother me the most. That is why I quit playing DCUO on the Xbox, and why I quit Age of Conan - the game was riddled with bugs, and had far too little content for what it was trying to do - but the toxic (as in Arsenic + Strychnine + Polonium level toxic) was the last straw for me. Especially since Funcom had zero interest in fixing any of it.
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Golden Ace
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Golden Ace » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:24 am

Got me again GladDog :/

Which items bothers you the most about currently-released MMOs (not SoH)?

  • Unpleasant or toxic community
  • Difficulty forming teams with competent players, outside of my guild or buddies
  • Content is not updated or expanded often enough
  • Bugs and glitches go unfixed for far too long
  • The content seems generic – there is nothing new available
  • Something else – tell us on the SoH forums
this should have been check several boxes instead of just one.

I agree with GladDog but went with Something else.

I hated the way they changed my character's powers. bringing up WoW again. I ran a Pally. I soloed mostly. they changed them significantly several times over the years. this last change was just to much for me. in my opinion they made him no longer fun to play. soloing was much more difficult all my combat heals gone, replaced by one crappy one. :(

But CoH did that a few times too. I hate changes to long established characters. having to re do a beloved character sucks
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JestersGhost
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby JestersGhost » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:11 am

None of those options - I doubt anyone will be surprised it comes down to mechanics and playstyle customisation :)

I want games where I have choice, where I can make weird builds that work, and have characters that are truly mine, and not just the one-millionth rogue character. I want good game balance, and mechanics that make sense, and where skill and knowledge matter. I want games where there is progression but not a grind. I want variety and fun and fairness.

It's kinda frightening how few games manage to actually do that these days, for me at least.
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Happy Thoughts
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Happy Thoughts » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:01 am

I went with "Bugs and glitches go unfixed for far too long" but please let me add "Typos" to that category. In City of Heroes there was a set of missions that wanted you to diffuse a bomb, as opposed to the more traditional and effective strategy where you defuse a bomb. I mean, I'm pretty sure they didn't really want me to make a bunch of littler bombs from the big one and spread them out over an area. But I guess I can't be certain. I don't know how many times I bug reported this, and despite it being a super easy thing to fix, it never was. In fact, this typo got carried over to Champions Online. *boggle* Okay, mini-rant over.

Related: when bug reports are ignored--or worse, responded to in a dismissive fashion--that sends a very negative message to the players.

Another big concern, under the "not listed" category, is forced grouping. There should be some content that requires a team, but that shouldn't be the majority of the content, and especially not the majority of the end-game content. DC Universe Online is a great example of this. While leveling up, everything can be soloed (except for bounties and maybe a few other optional things). However, once you get to the level cap, EVERYTHING requires a group. You can't even enter the missions solo. This is what caused me to uninstall the game, even though prior to reaching the level cap I was enjoying it. Note this was a while ago and perhaps the situation has changed (or not, I honestly don't know); but alienating players, especially by changing the rules of play after significant playtime investment, is not how you keep a playerbase.

Lastly, my big concern is that there are no good superhero options for online games. Please look into this. :)

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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Golden Ace » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:27 am


I want games where I have choice, where I can make weird builds that work, and have characters that are truly mine, and not just the one-millionth rogue character.
Could not agree more.

Golden Ace was an Invulnerable Tank with the Ice Melee secondary. to put it plainly Ice melee sucked the first 6 years of game play. The final signature power "Ice Aura" did no damage at all. I used to give all the villains in atlas park the top dog badge using Ice Aura and Teleport Foe. I could keep them frozen indefinitely with a reapplication every minute or so. I once got nearly a dozen to the top of the globe before some blaster blew them all over kingdom come to see how far they would go.

They finally put a damage component in Frozen Aura in the last couple years bringing it up damage wise toward and more in line with the other secondaries. it made a world of difference. All that being said I knew that the Ice Melee power sucked from 2005 onward. but I loved Golden Ace. even though I respected him over a dozen times through the years I never switched out his power sets because that was who he was. I'll make him Invulnerable Ice again given the chance. if Ice is not available I'll make him something else, because I truly miss him, and will respect him into an Ice secondary when available. so yeah I don't want a cookie cutter build. I want a build that fits my character. I want a build I can have fun with. I want a build that fits me and is unique. I want Ace back damn it.
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lunawisp
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby lunawisp » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:53 pm

I voted for bugs going unfixed. Not only bugs though, that includes glaring omissions like the lack of a y-axis invert for year after year after year.

Looking at PWI here. Someone posted a comment claiming that the game engine they used had that option available but the PWI developers deliberately removed it because they didn't think they'd need it for the Korean market. They then went and shoved it out to the rest of the world blissfully unaware that they'd just made their game unplayable for large numbers of people, They then refused, point blank to reinstate the option. It's mind boggling, especially when you consider that it's not the hardest bit of programming they'd ever have to do.
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Kawless
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Kawless » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:45 pm

MMOs that were pretty much unsoloable for some classes. Tank classes that couldn't tank, Defenders that couldn't do damage.
MMOs not designed with teams in mind - teaming only bringing disadvantages. Quests not updating properly while teamed.
Pet classes with pets that couldn't do much damage, or pets that couldn't handle any aggro. CoH did it right imo.
HP buffs that don't "heal" the HPs they add. I know, kinda specific.
Can't change appearance without changing gear. Everquest 2 at least had appearance gear.
Worn gear in general.
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A1fighter
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby A1fighter » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:57 pm

Poor ownership and devs

Marvel Heroes Omega was voted to have the best community not that long ago. Things soured quickly when devs broke off all communications and updates. Speculation began, Marvel is dead threads started to pop up, players began attacking one another, etc, etc. Before that, the big update in 2017 separated the player-base. Some liked it, the ones whom disliked it were attacked by the ones whom did like it vice versa. One year of development changed the community.

Bad devs trumps a toxic community; and bad ownership trumps both. Imo, these two factors can lead to a toxic community due to venting and player frustration. One would think CoX player-base was toxic because they appear in every NCSoft article and vent lol. Ownership contributed to their rage.

You can escape an A-hole or two, You cannot escape the structure (Or lack thereof) of the game itself. I can be removed from the forums. Cannot remove devs whom go after players "DCUO team..Cough..Cough..."

If a guy curses you out, odds are you may not even play with the guy for the rest of your day, or week. If a dev tells you we thrive off lockboxes so your suggestions do not matter, "Cough, DCUO, cough.." there is no escape from this.

CO does not update content that often, but it is still a blast to play. It is also a little generic at times lol. It is buggy as-well...but there is no difficulty in forming teams.

The aspect which annoys me the most was kicked to the curb within a month of getting to know these SoH devs. So yeah, I am good on that front.

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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby indigowulf » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:38 pm

While I agree with all of them, I had to go with "other" because the number one thing that bothers me in most other games is not being able to team with our pals. Say I play obsessively, hours every day and all weekend. My friend plays casually. I'm fully geared and ready to face the final boss.

Our only option of playing together is me dropping down to his level and then (accidentally) blasting everything in sight while he feels useless.

This is why I *loved* the sk/exemplar system. While a SK'd lower level is still noticeably weaker, and the end-geared exemp powerful, you could still play with your friends at either level without anyone feeling like they are just along for the ride.
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby JestersGhost » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:35 am

Lastly, my big concern is that there are no good superhero options for online games. Please look into this. :)
Good idea. We'll get someone on that right away.
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

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Gamegod
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Gamegod » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:59 pm

I miss being able to easily identify teammates and guild members. In COH I never had that problem while in large groups; in and out of an instances. Take the rikti warship raid for example as a healer I could easily target a member with low hp and heal them. In open world I had no problem seeing and targeting my guild and team members. I think the noticeably different colors made it quite simple. This made forming teams, task force, and raids way more enjoyable. Other mmos have one color in slightly different shades of green, blue, or whatever to depict each type. It's a struggle to recognize which is which even when they are standing still. Toxic community is also a biggie I literally close my chat window to keep from seeing all the stupid arguements, ads, and conversations.
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Red5
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Red5 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:29 am

Got me again GladDog :/

...

this should have been check several boxes instead of just one.
Agreed, yes to this
I agree with GladDog but went with Something else.

I hated the way they changed my character's powers. bringing up WoW again. I ran a Pally. I soloed mostly. they changed them significantly several times over the years. this last change was just to much for me. in my opinion they made him no longer fun to play. soloing was much more difficult all my combat heals gone, replaced by one crappy one. :(

But CoH did that a few times too. I hate changes to long established characters. having to re do a beloved character sucks
Agreed, probably not 100% ACCURATE but one of my first characters was a Broadsword/Regenration Scrapper and I swear just about every Issue that came out changed him (regen side). I still played him even at the end but it was not my toon anymore.


ON TO TOPIC...

I think all of those are checkable, and toxicity is a big one imho but honestly I fear for SoH (maybe unreasonably granted) falling into vanilla/stale META pigeon holing and a lot of games do that too. Which is akin imho to Ace's statements above. Archtypes tend to fall out of favor when being changed up all the time and/or nerfed into a grave.

I would love, in a perfect world, to be in a game that lets me play my character and not force me to play some ones elses character.
...reporting in.

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Itlandm
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Itlandm » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:04 pm

What I universally find ever since December 1, 2012, is that I join a game and I feel like a tourist, a stranger in a strange land. Everyone is already doing their own thing. Channels are filled with cryptic phrases, often abbreviations, which make no sense to me even after I have gone through not only the introduction but several levels of soloable content. Then in some games I am suddenly expected to team up, but I still have no idea what is going on. Watching numerous YouTube videos, what I learn is high-level builds, most of which are already nerfed to oblivion by the time I find them. Between the Starting Island and the Continent of Endgame is this ocean which I do not know how to cross. (I mean this metaphorically, except for Age of Conan where there actually was a pretty big literal starting island.)

I am not sure if City of Heroes was the same for some of the latecomers - I played it since closed beta so I would not feel it personally - but I did not get that impression. Newbies showed up all the time and were included in the teams. I know I was happy to show people the ropes myself, but it may well be that it would still have failed if they were as introverted and clueless as I feel today. I do not know, but I think there has to be some better way to ease people into teaming than simply requiring it. Perhaps an AI NPC that teams up with you and explains the basics of team play? I don't know. I am not a game developer, for which we should all be thankful.

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Zagadka
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Zagadka » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:41 am

Progression. I hate when you play a MMO with 100 levels, and end up using the same skill rotation from level 20 up. I just had to re-quit LotRO because it was just the same 2 buttons over and over. I'd prefer to have different combinations and longer fights (which you guys have promised - but I went over to Rift and the fights are longer and use more power combinations).

This is partly why I hate the idea of starting with travel powers... things need to seem to grow, visibly, even if not actively (such as unlocking a cape in CoH). There needs to be a sense of accomplishment, of feeling more powerful.

More generally, MMOs crap out for a few reasons. The economy crashes when money from high levels floods low level items, for instance. Additional expansion causes players to have different skill trees (such as getting to level 50 (or whatever) then having a different ranking system, we see that in many games like ESO or Wildstar). Fewer playfields at high levels compared to low levels. Again in expansions, content being made completely irrelevant (like WoW garrisons).

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Blue Djinn
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Re: Concerns for other games question

Postby Blue Djinn » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 pm

None of those options - I doubt anyone will be surprised it comes down to mechanics and playstyle customisation :)

I want games where I have choice, where I can make weird builds that work, and have characters that are truly mine, and not just the one-millionth rogue character. I want good game balance, and mechanics that make sense, and where skill and knowledge matter. I want games where there is progression but not a grind. I want variety and fun and fairness.

It's kinda frightening how few games manage to actually do that these days, for me at least.
Total bump here.
"This is the only Tank/Healer/DPS build that works" Nothing makes me leave a game faster than that if there is nothing else to do. I get that some people will say (probably a lot actually) that if you dont do that, then what separates the class system and that just makes it a mess.

Well with the exception of end game I think ESO got that right. You can have weird builds that pretty much work due to gearing and such.... and plenty of content to keep you busy. I have enough character slots to keep me trying stuff with my alt addiction. Once that runs out Im gone, end game does not appeal to me due to grinding for specific gear builds and respecting my guy to go climb Mt Everest.

I loved running a team of trollers or tanks in CoH, did we burn through stuff like the top tier min maxer strat teams? Hell no, but did we get to see some crazy game mechanics and have tons of fun? Hell yea ten times over. I cant tell you how many times my son would just yell out "Whoa! did you see that?" and then go off after mission and make another alt.

Please make up the balance and variety and just make it work.


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