Poll Questions

Consultant
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Poll Questions

Postby Consultant » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:47 am

We're throwing the topic of poll questions open again. Who has suggestions? Also, if anyone thinks a previous poll question should be asked again, feel free to mention it, along with your reasoning.

Pyrion
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Pyrion » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:38 am

I would like a question about hard or soft enhancement limits.

I see a problem in that regard with the way that you are planing this. If you indeed allow lots (lets say 8) of the same enhancements (lets say damage) to a single power, than this will immediately become the norm. Builds will be tightly focused on just one or 2 skills; if you do not do that you will gimp yourself.

That's how it was in the early CoH-days before they introduced enhancement diversification. I still hope that we can avoid that problem here.

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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Consultant » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:05 am

Don't you think people will respond to running out of energy to fire their attacks, or missing the target all of the time, or having to wait between firing attacks, by adjusting other parameters?

That is meant to be a real question, not a rhetorical one.

And I might add, won't they want to augment 4-6 powers, not just 2-3? I think a player with two just two powers maxed out on damage would die a lot and be gimped.

But hey, let's ask the question and see what people think. We're open to the answers from the community.

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GladDog
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby GladDog » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:12 am

When CoH released, it wasn't long before it became City of Blasters and their Scrapper sidekicks. Why? I Acc and 5 Dam in every offensive power (six damage with Assault Rifle/ Devices Blasters using Targeting Drone), which frontloaded some powers to make almost every fight a very short fight. DPS ruled, and it ruled even after the level cap increased. The balance of power just shifted to Fire tankers and controllers with their armies of offensive pets. That was a product of bad mechanics. But the ED fix was not the correct way to solve the problem. The problem was quite frankly a lack of top end limits. ED just made CoH like every other game out there, other than team buffs. Those buffs were cool, and a decent team could steamroll through just about everything. But sometimes getting big teams wasn't easy.

The solution was to cap what enhancements would do for you, and there were a LOT of different ways to do it than what the CoH team did with ED. I was one of the quite vocal people on the forums asking for hard caps on all aspects from enhancements. For example, I suggested that they make a cap of 114.9% damage from enhancements - the same as three +3 enhancements gave. That would have been a TON easier to code than what they did, and the nightmare minor adjustments they inevitably had to make would have not been a big deal. Also, numbers guys like me like hard caps when calculating out the best build. It becomes a whole lot less headache to figure it out. And, us numbers guys like writing guides on what we mathed out (as long as it doesn't take 16 pages to describe the math), so it helps everyone!

Resistance improvement from enhancements should have capped at 69% (same as 3 +3 SOs). Same for Defense, Range, etc.

This does not mean that you can't exceed these limits, the limits were just from enhancements. Team buffs and Temp powers can increase stats all the way to the hard cap.

Like for example;

My Invul tanker, GladStrike, With maxxed resistance gain from enhancements and after incarnate boosting, had 42% resistance to fire damage. Not bad. But if I was in a team with a X/Fire Corruptor, that number could be driven up to 115.5% via Fire Shield and Plasma Armor, which was well over the hard cap of 90%, allowing a bit of room for debuffing.

Hopefully this is not TOO confusing!
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Pyrion
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Pyrion » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:01 am

In CoH it was possible to speed up power firing by a lot. Basically everybody had the haste power and if you had certain other similar powers it was totally possible to have haste all the time. Add to that a haste enchantment in your best power and boom, you don't need any more.

If you will not offer any recharge speed buffs diversification might not be needed. If you just need about 4 or 5 powers to have a full chain, that might be ok. Still i would implement at least a slow dropoff in enhancements so that people who want to diversify can at least rationalize it.

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JestersGhost
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby JestersGhost » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:27 pm

The main issue was the lack of meaningful trade-offs.

I'm sure the devs intended for some people to slot damage, some to slot recharge, etc.

But people just slotted damage and took haste. Endurance usage now a problem? Take stamina.

Two powers took the place of three or so enhancements in every power, and were available to every build. It was so much more efficient than any other load out.

If you want players to choose between damage, recharge, endurance, accuracy, etc. there has to be sufficient *unavoidable* cost to specialising. This was inelegantly forced in with ED, but it could have been handled with better mechanics.
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Consultant » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:09 am

Don't forget to keep offering up poll questions if you want to have them asked.

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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Gamegod » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:07 pm

I think and I'm just speed balling here... with all the pros and cons of ED the Devs of Coh inadvertantly forced the players to learn how to manage there characters more proficiently because of the way it was designed. This in turn made for an exciting and more enjoyable overall experience while teaming and to some degree soloing. The mistake helped people become better players.
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GladDog
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby GladDog » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:10 pm

ED was a need, no question. It is the way they did it that stunk it up. By using a complex sliding scale, they ensured that any problems would take months or even years to fix. I felt sorry for Paragon Studios. Cryptic built an engine from scratch that was a pile of poo, very difficult for fixing problems. Adding the sliding scale made things much worse.

Let's take, for example, the defense debuff in Invulnerability/ Unyielding. It was only included because Invincibility was horribly broken, and it took Paragon years to find the cause and fix it. When they fixed it, they also took out the defense debuff from Unyielding because it was no longer needed. But the reason it was so difficult to fix Invinc was because of the sliding scale. Paragon would have to work their tales off to ensure a .15% reduction in defense per melee foe did not ruin the game for Invuls, one of the most popular classes. And if it broke the class, they had to reset the value and start over.

Heroic Games does not need this headache. Hard capping the values means they can have augment diversity without difficulty. If they need to fix a power, they can change the cap for that power only, without affecting anyone else. The way the soft cap worked it was all or nothing. They had to change EVERYTHING if they changed ANYTHING. They could not change accuracy from enhancements for a single power, they had to change accuracy enhancements for ALL powers if they changed it at all.

So I am promoting a hard cap of 4 high end augments (in my description of Augments in Fan Creations and Role Play I would use 4 single aspect epic, or purple augments as the standard). Since the team is aiming at 8 augments per power, this should be about right, although that will be proven in alpha and beta.

Keep in mind that any type of cap; hard, soft, sliding or non-existent; only applies to augments. You can still use temp powers and team buffs to exceed these limits.
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Eulb
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Eulb » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:37 am

i'll be exposing my nativity now ... What is ED ???? what game is this .... ????
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Blaze Rocker » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:37 am

ED is short for Enhancement Diversification.
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Consultant
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Consultant » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:57 am

Don't forget to give us more poll questions, if you want them asked.

I see we have a lot of new-ish posters on the forums. Is there something that needs to be covered in a poll question?

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Golden Ace
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Golden Ace » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:55 pm

What should you be able to make from salvage? (Multiple Choice)

  1. [ ] Temporary Powers
  2. [ ] Base items (storage units, display items, teleport chambers, etc)
  3. [ ] Costume pieces
  4. [ ] Inspirations
  5. [ ] Augments
  6. [ ] Other - please explain on the forums.
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Consultant
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby Consultant » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:18 pm

I just added this question to the list going around for review. And sent Pyrion a question about his question. :)

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lunawisp
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Re: Poll Questions

Postby lunawisp » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:31 pm

If vehicles usable by players were to become a possibility, what sort would people want to see?

Personally a nice big low black noisy bike would do me, perfect for that day job where flying around would attract unwanted attention!
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