Delay for Controller AT question

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GladDog
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby GladDog » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:11 pm

IMO, SoH controllers should be like CoH Controllers, with a twist;

In their primary set, instead of adding relatively useless powers, give them 2-3 ranged attacks. Maybe a moderate damage moderate recycle med-long ranged single target attack, a short-med range low-med DPS cone attack, and a low-med DPS ranged targeted AoE attack. These would be well spread out in the powerset, with the single target attack being early, second or third power, the cone attack being mid, maybe 6-7 and the targeted AoE coming late, maybe 10-11.

This would make them true to form with CoH Controllers, but having enough ranged offense to be able to solo easily and contribute DPS to a team. And they would still have their buff/ debuff/ heal set to use, whether it is on their team or their pets.
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Sergio
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby Sergio » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:36 pm

I had 5 controllers that i leveled up in COH and some were certainly tough to solo with. My Ice/Rad controller could slow and debuff mobs into the ground but before i got my pet, killing mobs was slow going. There are 2 key things to note though 1) even though it was slow, it was fun, and 2) max level controllers could be soloing machines and tear through mobs.

Personally, I like the COH controller template as is (was :( ). If I had to pick a change to make to help with leveling at lower levels, I would move pets from 9th tier down to 3rd tier. I don't think any further change is required to the COH Controller AT template.

When I teamed with people on a low level controller, i never worried that i wasn't contributing enough damage to the team. That was not my role, I locked mobs down and provided support. The lowly dps were just a dime a dozen, easily replaced and not contributing anywhere near what i was to the team :D . Controller fans don't need blaster powers in their set to feel like they are contributing. Besides, moving the pet to tier 3 would give them some extra damage to contribute anyway.
Last edited by Sergio on Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PowerAce
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby PowerAce » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:01 pm

I voted none. It's more important to get the game to launch as well as get the controller-like archetype correct. I imagjne that even some play testing should be in order before release to the general population to ensure it is solid. It's a controversial type that needs to be done well.
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GladDog
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby GladDog » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:21 pm

The reason I would suggest a few ranged powers is because the jury has still not reached a verdict whether SoH Controllers will be more like CoH Controllers or CoV Dominators. By slipping a couple of ranged powers into the set, you have a blended character that performs with both ideas in mind.
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby Sergio » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:00 pm

GladDog - I see. I agree it makes it a bit of both, but it also makes it neither of them as well. I never liked doms and loved trollers. I am sure there are people who feel the exact opposite of how i do. With that in mind, why not do both? :D

Once you have done Controllers, adding Doms is an smaller additional effort. You can leverage the Controller and Devastator powersets/animations so a lot of the heavy lifting will be done already to support Dominators as a distinct AT.

I would like to see the game go live asap, so I'd support controllers coming in the first patch. I'd like to see controllers stay true to the COH template maybe with the Pet coming at a lower level (see earlier post). Presumably Dominators could be squeezed into the 2nd patch.

Over time, this would give SoH the conceptual equivalent of Tank/Brute, Defender/Corruptor and Controller/Dominator. I think this is a good set of base ATs for the game to be targeting.

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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby GladDog » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:02 pm

They are a small dev team, and they are only planning on adding 3 more ATs. Besides the starting ATs of tanks, brawlers, devastators and defenders, they are going to add Controllers, Commanders (Masterminds) and eventually Rogues. I have not heard a breath of a slip about anything else. You are right, there are a lot of potential players that prefer Dominators. So the easy solution, and the one that their team will probably choose, is to make a Dominator with some buffing ability or a Controller with some ranged attacks. Personally, I liked Dominators more, but Controllers were only a couple of ranged attacks from being notably better than Doms. So that is where I think they should go. Of course, it's my opinion, I'm just a fan of the game. I'm looking forward to seeing how they solve this just as much as everything else they are solving!
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby Sergio » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:44 pm

If they they go the hybrid route they potentially alienate the die hard fans of the COH ATs. I would have no interest in playing 'a Dominator with some buffing ability'. I assume the Dom diehards would consider a 'Controller with some ranged attacks' equally unappealing.

Once they've done a Controller, doing a Dom would be way less cost than introducing Masterminds or even Rogues.

I'm not looking to be argumentative for the sake of it, I genuinely think it would be a mistake to assume that the 'happy medium' approach would actually make controller/dom fans happy.

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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby Van Allen » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:07 am

IMO, SoH controllers should be like CoH Controllers, with a twist;

In their primary set, instead of adding relatively useless powers, give them 2-3 ranged attacks. ... This would make them true to form with CoH Controllers, but having enough ranged offense to be able to solo easily and contribute DPS to a team. And they would still have their buff/ debuff/ heal set to use, whether it is on their team or their pets.
I like this GladDog.

Soloing a Controller was slow, but a doable challenge, frustrating at times before Pets. For every Controller I had 2 Dominators.

To extend an idea:
War Shades and Peace Bringers had 14 options in their Primary as opposed to 9. What if the SoH Controllers were like this with an abundance of options? Some players could be pure CC, others with a mix of CC and ranged damage. Just an idea.
What Are Dominators. "Much like a spider traps a bug, wraps it up, then starts chewing on it when it's completely unable to escape or defend itself."

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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby GladDog » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:52 am

If they they go the hybrid route they potentially alienate the die hard fans of the COH ATs. I would have no interest in playing 'a Dominator with some buffing ability'. I assume the Dom diehards would consider a 'Controller with some ranged attacks' equally unappealing.

Once they've done a Controller, doing a Dom would be way less cost than introducing Masterminds or even Rogues.

I'm not looking to be argumentative for the sake of it, I genuinely think it would be a mistake to assume that the 'happy medium' approach would actually make controller/dom fans happy.
The problem is that this is a small dev team that for the most part is unpaid. There is only so much they can do. I do not think they will have the resources for years after release to justify a 2nd CC AT. Unless of course the game is wildly more popular than the SoH team expects...

Devastators are also going to be a hybrid class. Their secondary sets will be a blend of Blaster and Corruptor sets. Many self buffs, with some limited team buffs/ debuffs/ heals available. The3re won't be any melee attacks in the Devastator secondary powersets, they will need to depend on inherent melee abilities and Temp powers. And you won't see a Devastator main healing a raid group!

Also, when they introduce Villains they will be using the same ATs as the heroes have.
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby sersi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:30 pm

They are a small dev team, and they are only planning on adding 3 more ATs. Besides the starting ATs of tanks, brawlers, devastators and defenders, they are going to add Controllers, Commanders (Masterminds) and eventually Rogues.
i havent been following here as long as some - what will "rogues" entail? similar to CoX's Stalkers?

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GladDog
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby GladDog » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:36 pm

They are a small dev team, and they are only planning on adding 3 more ATs. Besides the starting ATs of tanks, brawlers, devastators and defenders, they are going to add Controllers, Commanders (Masterminds) and eventually Rogues.
i havent been following here as long as some - what will "rogues" entail? similar to CoX's Stalkers?
They have only mentioned that they want to put rogues in, they have not put them on any form of timetable or milestone. I think that they will come quite a ways after Commanders. But yeah, they are going to be pretty much CoV Stalkers.

I would imagine they are going to be introduced around the time that we get Villains and PvP.
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby sersi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:02 pm

awesome. i loved my stalking ninja grrl.

Consultant
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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby Consultant » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:42 am

It looks like "zero delay -- launch the game immediately" is the most popular answer.

About 80% of players are saying either zero delay or two months.

We re-asked this question, and will do the same for the Commander (pet master) class because there was some confusion about whether people inadvertently answered differently than they wanted to, due to poor wording of the question.

On the current plan, there will be (at a minimum) both some control powers and quite a bit of debuff in the game at launch, even if we have to delay the introduction of a controller class for a bit. But delay is not yet settled.

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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby brawlizard » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:16 am

I went with zero, because I'm an alt junky. I'll have plenty of time to do other things while the controller types are figured out.

This is a good question, imo

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Re: Delay for Controller AT question

Postby Gamegod » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:28 pm

Most of the toons I built were controllers. I had no issue at low levels because I created well rounded teams that supplied all the damage I needed. I was able to do what a controller is made for and that is mez, holds, and immobalize .
Never say too much; always say enough. :roll:


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