Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

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olepi
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby olepi » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:47 am

Agreed. I've told this story before, but I made a rad/rad defender who could cast resistance buffs on people. When I made the character I thought it was so cool to make the buffs a persistent light blue flame, which played over the recipients of the buff.

At the first Rikti raid for this guy I buffed the whole group and someone dryly commented that "it's like playing from inside a scented candle."

It would have been good if players could have turned off the FX but kept the buff.

And right now, a blanced approach to tradeoffs is winning in the poll, and fortunately no one wants speaking expressions, which would have delayed the game.
There's a feature in the old game that allows you to change the color and look of some of your powers. So now, healing isn't always green, it can be red. Fire doesn't have to be red, it can be blue. I don't like it very much, because it becomes hard to tell what is going on.

Was that fireball? Or a water blast? Was that a heal? or a debuff?
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GladDog
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby GladDog » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:04 am

A related question is what kind of hardware is the target? My old PC is similar to today's PS4 Pro, and it can run the old game without a hitch. When the old game was written, however, back in 2004, my hardware would have been off the charts.

(In 1980, I used to buy computer systems for Motorola, and just for fun, I calculated what my home PC would cost back in 1980. Each 300mb disk back then cost $15,000, and my 3 TB disk today would be 9,000 of those! Disk cost alone would be $135 MILLION!!)

Anyway, the graphics capabilities of the target hardware will tend to set the budget for the graphics. But we know in 2-5 years, the hardware will improve, probably dramatically.

So the question really is: what would you trade-off? Models and environment? Graphics effects? And *what hardware is the target*?
After looking at the user specs for the login test, I would say that this is the minimum to play;

1st gen i5 dual core CPU with a dedicated graphics card on the lines of a GTS450 or a Radeon 5750. These are entry level numbers. This requires turning graphics to minimum. Using built on Intel graphics would likely need a 6th generation quad core CPU, once again with settings at minimum. Intel onboard graphics use a lot of software emulators, which puts a lot of stress on the CPU. A dedicated video card would be just about required with an Intel CPU.

AMD has a huge lead with onboard graphics. Estimating based on similar games with similar Intel spec requirements, a 2nd or 3rd gen A8 quad core would run the game at above minimum. The onboard video for any Ryzen 2nd gen CPU should play the game very well, although probably not at max settings.

If I was going to recommend a value system that should play the game at or near maximum graphic settings with a good FPS, I would recommend the following;

INTEL BASED: a 6th gen i5 quad core or newer/ faster, teamed with either an RX470 GPU or faster (such as Vega series) or An Nvidia GTX1050Ti or better. The 1050Ti performs at about the same level as a GTX 970.

AMD based: Ryzen R5 - 1600 or faster teamed with an RX 470 or faster, or a Vega 56 or faster.

As far as cost effective system, I would get a Ryzen 5 - 2600X and just use that without a dedicated card. The built on Vega 10 graphics should play the game just fine, although not at max. Then in July, when AMD releases their NAVI GPUs, I would get one of those that is priced about $250. This setup should easily play SoH at max graphics. A complete system based on these parts, including the GPU and a copy of Win10 but excluding a monitor (why buy a monitor when you can just use your TV and get a much larger view?), with 16GB of RAM, and a 512GB SSD should price out well under $1000. You could probably get a Ryzen 7 2700 and still stay well under a grand. That one is 8 core/ 16 thread and uses slightly superior built on graphics, Vega 11.

Or, if you are not in a hurry, AMD is releasing their 3rd gen Ryzen CPUs in July. One of those, with a NAVI video card, should rock the socks off of SoH.
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby Golden Ace » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:08 am

I was just thinking is it possible to have a switch to flip so that the FX will automatically lesson as more people join your group? You’re fighting solo or duel against a hoard of mobs and everything is normal you get five or six people on board and the amount of FX you see is reduced by 50%, The more people that join the more the FX is reduced. something like that.
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GladDog
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby GladDog » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:24 am

Here is a spec for a serious AMD based system that is under a grand - barely.

ASUS ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING AM4 AMD B450 ATX AMD Motherboard - $119.99

DIYPC Zondda-O Black USB 3.0 ATX Mid Tower Gaming Computer Case - $35.88

XFX Radeon RX 580 GTS Black Edition 1405 MHz OC+, 8GB PCI-E AMD Graphics Card - $189.99

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 Memory - $95.99

Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2, SSD - $99.99

Windows 10 Home - 64-bit - OEM - $109.99

Antec VP PLUS Series VP650 Plus 650W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply - $49.99

AMD RYZEN 7 2700X 8-Core 16 thread 3.7 GHz (4.3 GHz Max Boost) AM4 105W - $284.99

Total: $986.81
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby GladDog » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 am

Here is a spec for a serious Intel - Nvidia based system, which surprised me at being able to fit under the $1000 barrier - by the skin of its teeth though...

MSI B360 GAMING PLUS LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel B360 ATX Intel Motherboard - $99.99

DIYPC Zondda-O Black USB 3.0 ATX Mid Tower Gaming Computer Case - $35.88

EVGA GeForce GTX 1660 XC Black GAMING, 06G-P4-1161-KR, 6GB GDDR5, HDB Fan - $219.99

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 Memory - $95.99

Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2, SSD - $99.99

Windows 10 Home - 64-bit - OEM - $109.99

Antec VP PLUS Series VP650 Plus 650W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply - $49.99

Intel Core i7-8700 Coffee Lake 6-Core 3.2 GHz LGA 115165W BX80684I78700 - $299.99

Total: $999.80
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olepi
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby olepi » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:39 pm

"Or, if you are not in a hurry, AMD is releasing their 3rd gen Ryzen CPUs in July. One of those, with a NAVI video card, should rock the socks off of SoH."

There is no reason to be in a hurry. I think the estimated release date of SoH is end of this year or sometime next year.

I can't get into the details of AMD designs, but I will say that the stuff coming out now was designed at least a year ago, and we haven't stopped in the year since then. It's hard to say what will be available sometime next year or the year after. The next step beyond 7nm is 5nm.
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GladDog
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby GladDog » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:13 pm

My philosophy has always been simple.

1 - Is your computer doing what you need it to do and will do so for at least a year? If so keep using it. If not,

2- -Will the computer you are looking at still be viable in 3 years? If so, buy it. If not,

3 - Reconsider your needs and expectations, tempered by your budget. Once you have a new build start over at #2.

Two rules; Never spend more than $300 USD on a CPU or video card, and never spend more than $1000 USD on the completed box. Operating systems, memory, hard drives, monitors, keyboards and mice are reusable with newer boxes. Even though a new monitor would be so cool, think out what you are going to do with the old one. If you are just going to use it as a TV, then you ought to consider reusing your monitor and buying a TV.

Spending over $300 on a vid is a waste. That $600 video card looks so good, but the $300 video card you could buy will get the job done admirably. two years later you can buy the latest and greatest $300 card that will put that two year old $600 card under the table.
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby Blaze Rocker » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:17 pm

Golden Ace
I was just thinking, is it possible to have a switch to flip so that the FX will automatically lesson as more people join your group? You’re fighting solo or duel against a hoard of mobs and everything is normal. You get five or six people on board and the amount of FX you see is reduced by 50%, The more people that join the more the FX is reduced. Something like that.
I like this idea, just so long as you focus on the combat periods rather than when the team is out of combat.
Regarding costume auras and effects from my previous post, I think that automatically reducing unneeded and unwanted effects in combat and/or as mob sizes increase would be a welcome addition. If your team of 6-8 is just walking through an office or warehouse interior and not fighting then I don't see any issue with running full effects because there isn't anything significant to drag down a graphics processor.
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby Golden Ace » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:34 pm

concur. out of combat not affected.
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby Gerald_Deemer » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Having to much graphical effects on the screen is killing the fun. If you have to search your character on the screen after a giant colorful explosion is exacly the thing what lots of isometric games like Diablo did wrong.

A good balance is the only true way.
You mean Diablo III of course?
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MardParagon
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby MardParagon » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:22 am

I'd have voted the 1st option, because I love customizing my characters and have great details, sometimes I get games just to see what I can do with their character creators, but I don't care at all about facial expressions because this isn't a single player game that's heavy on dialogue and feelings.

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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby Consultant » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:25 pm

MardParagon, I think you'll be pleased.

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SR20Slider
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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby SR20Slider » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:05 pm

I'm sure I will be one of few with this opinion. But the visuals and bright flashy explosions and powers are what keep me entertained. I hate making costumes. 4/6 toons I have on HC are from clicking the random button until something pops up that I can live with. Almost all of my characters have armor and stealth that makes it so I dont even see anything but a glowing invisible aura anyways.

What really draws me in are the power FX, I LOVE when I am standing in melee of an AV or GM and cant see a thing because 16-50 players are throwing attacks out and my screen is flashing brighter than a JDM Lamborghini on the highway.

I really hope that when the game goes live I can adjust a slider or settings that will turn my screen in to a fire works show everytime my team engages a mob of enemies.

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Re: Do you prefer detailed graphics models, or more flash?

Postby Consultant » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:47 am

That's really cool. we've been adding features to allow players to dial down the intensity of the FX, in case they have older computers and it is causing lag. But for you, as long as you have a good computer, you should be able to live in a world of explosions and FX. :)


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