Q&A with Consultant

Dying Breath
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:20 am

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby Dying Breath » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:31 pm


I thought that was awesome play. I don't have a single problem with that. Looked like fun to me. What was the negative impact?
That was fun if you were the tank. Imagine being the peacebringer or defenders there - or did you notice the contribution they made?. Imagine doing that mission over and over and over and over exactly the same way. <*snore*>

User avatar
broxen
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby broxen » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:37 am

I thought that was awesome play. I don't have a single problem with that. Looked like fun to me. What was the negative impact?
The negatives are many.
  • That game style lacks replayability and without other ways to advance quickly, players will tire, ultimately leaving the game altogether. Don't believe me? Go play some Warhammer Online and tell me how much fun it is. Oh wait...
  • It offends the progression timeline that the devs implemented causing characters to progress without truly learning how the game works or how their characters work. This is a huge issue in many games, DCUO is one example. The instant level ups spits out players that have no idea how to play their characters. Players then get frustrated when the game challenges their terrible tactics. Players leave the game.
  • It leaves players without meaningful decisions about their character or how to play, instead they are simply button mashing. Woo, let's play Monopoly: Just roll the dice and buy if you can. What else is there in life? Eventually, players leave the game.
  • It contributes to an imbalanced game economy, as resources are gathered faster than intended. This upsets the progression timeline laid out by the devs and entices others to exploit the system for gain as well... UO had plenty of examples of this, and every time it happened players would leave the game. Most didn't come back and it's audience is largely international at this point.
  • In terms of game design theory, giving players a clear path to victory is the definition of poor design. This gamasutra article is a fantastic read on the subject: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1 ... ctice_.php
In short, maybe you're playing devil's advocate, or maybe you're the exception, but for most players, they want to be challenged. The challenge and problem solving IS the fun. Simply herding mobs to slaughter isn't compelling, it's figuring out how to defeat them and why one tactic works here but not there. It's making meaningful decisions.
-Broxen

User avatar
Galactus55
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:14 pm
Location: Port Rowan Ontario, Canada

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby Galactus55 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:51 am

Thank You Broxen

I was hopping someone would point out in more detail why hearding and power leveling has a negative impact. :)

Nuff Said
May your frame rate be HIGH
And your Temperature LOW

User avatar
Galactus55
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:14 pm
Location: Port Rowan Ontario, Canada

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby Galactus55 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:19 am

Not Nuff Said
Pssst.. what Broxen said is true there were a lot of weekend power built level 50 players that had no clue how to play their Alts.
But for me with multi accounts I confess to power leveling many Alts just to experiment with the builds. I did not have the patients to go through all the time it took following the "normal" path.
Don't hate me but I am willing to bet that everyone at least once sat an alt in a few power leveling sessions. If anything just to get to say level 30 then follow the path from there.

Just saying
Any thoughts?
May your frame rate be HIGH
And your Temperature LOW

User avatar
JestersGhost
Posts: 896
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby JestersGhost » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:59 am

Yup, sure as heck got my ff/nrg defender up that way. I don't know what I was doing wrong but it seemed to take me years to get anyone levelled - only ever got two to 50, and I played from beta to shutdown. I had a lot of alts, but they only ever got to about 20-25 before I got bored and went back to my two mains. And still it took me literal years before I hit 50 with either of 'em.

*shrug* Maybe I died way too much or something :P
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

brawlizard
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby brawlizard » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:29 pm

Not Nuff Said
Pssst.. what Broxen said is true there were a lot of weekend power built level 50 players that had no clue how to play their Alts.
But for me with multi accounts I confess to power leveling many Alts just to experiment with the builds. I did not have the patients to go through all the time it took following the "normal" path.
Don't hate me but I am willing to bet that everyone at least once sat an alt in a few power leveling sessions. If anything just to get to say level 30 then follow the path from there.

Just saying
Any thoughts?
Nope, not even once.
It destroys the game for me. I know this from experience.
I played eq for years and for many people power leveling was the only way to ride. I tried it once, got to max level in no time, and deleted the character, because I was bored with it.

brawlizard
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby brawlizard » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:34 pm


I thought that was awesome play. I don't have a single problem with that. Looked like fun to me. What was the negative impact?
Zone disruption. Mob Monopolization. Both of those things are real and have real impacts on MMOs.
Again speaking from experience. That video showed herding at its worst. There were real problems finding mobs to fight in zones when that crap was going on. And that zone was one of my favorites to play in.

User avatar
JestersGhost
Posts: 896
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby JestersGhost » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:56 pm

Again speaking from experience. That video showed herding at its worst. There were real problems finding mobs to fight in zones when that crap was going on. And that zone was one of my favorites to play in.
? I may be mis-understanding something, and I completely agree that would be a problem in a city zone, but the video itself came from an instanced mission, in which case it doesn't affect anyone but those on the mission, who presumably have all signed on for it.

Not necessarily defending it, though as above I can see the appeal for later toons.
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

brawlizard
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby brawlizard » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:04 pm

I may be mis-understanding something, and I completely agree that would be a problem in a city zone, but the video itself came from an instanced mission, in which case it doesn't affect anyone but those on the mission, who presumably have all signed on for it.

Not necessarily defending it, though as above I can see the appeal for later toons.
You are correct about the video, I went back and looked. But herding *did* also happen in hazard zones where it caused problems.

User avatar
broxen
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby broxen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:58 pm

Herding in Perez Park was definitely an issue. Mostly for those who got caught in the train.

Im with Brawlizard, I enjoy the journey, and if I wanted to play with different level friends we could sidekick or exemplar.

GW2 nailed this with it's temporary auto leveling. I can take my lvl 50 into a starter zone and it will automatically adjust my strength down to work in that zone. I can enjoy any content without breaking the experience for others or the people I'm teaming with, and it all happens automatically. I use this to play with my nephew all the time.
-Broxen

User avatar
Galactus55
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:14 pm
Location: Port Rowan Ontario, Canada

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby Galactus55 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:03 pm

Herding in Perez Park was definitely an issue. Mostly for those who got caught in the train.

Im with Brawlizard, I enjoy the journey, and if I wanted to play with different level friends we could sidekick or exemplar.

GW2 nailed this with it's temporary auto leveling. I can take my lvl 50 into a starter zone and it will automatically adjust my strength down to work in that zone. I can enjoy any content without breaking the experience for others or the people I'm teaming with, and it all happens automatically. I use this to play with my nephew all the time.
Absolutely Broxen I'm for leveling with friends via sidekick or exemplar. Did that all the time with my 2 sons.
May your frame rate be HIGH
And your Temperature LOW

User avatar
GladDog
Posts: 1830
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Pottstown PA

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby GladDog » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:33 pm

After I painstakingly took a Blaster to 50 (643 hours) and a Fire Tank pre-issue 3 to 50 (401 hours), I was tired of leveling like that. They fixed the leveling curve in issue 3 so 250 hours was most typical if you did the missions and mission arcs. That was about right IMO. But I was SO BURNED OUT after putting over a thousand hours into two characters that the next two were power leveled (An emp defender and an ice controller - that one never got beyond 43, which was as far as I took it in PL - but the name Gladsicle was too good to pass up!). But then I got burned out on that, and with the leveling curve fixed I did not do that any more.

So I am indifferent to PL'ing as long as it doesn't affect others gameplay. But I think peeps are losing out not doing the campaign that the game devs put their heart and soul into developing!

I think CoH got it right with the baby sewer missions. You could use them to get to 22 (you quit levling at 22) in less than two hours, which was high enough for SOs. Also, you had to play the character, you weren't dancing in the corner! So you got a good intro into how the character plays and were ready to get into the meat and potatoes of the game!

If I was going to make something like this available, I would make level capping a character a prerequisite.
IN BRIGHTEST DAY, OR DARKEST NIGHT
NO SPAM SHALL STAY UPON THIS SITE
FOR THOSE THAT FEED THIS EVIL BLIGHT
BEWARE THE PAIN OF GUARD DOG'S BITE!

User avatar
broxen
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby broxen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:19 pm

I think CoH got it right with the baby sewer missions. You could use them to get to 22 (you quit levling at 22) in less than two hours, which was high enough for SOs. Also, you had to play the character, you weren't dancing in the corner! So you got a good intro into how the character plays and were ready to get into the meat and potatoes of the game!
I loved this as well. If you want to give experienced players a challenging fast lane to level up, then I see nothing wrong with that.

The herd and hide behind a rock from the video is obviously exploitive and doesn't appear to teach any real tactics with your characters.
-Broxen

User avatar
A1fighter
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Q&A with Consultant

Postby A1fighter » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:04 pm

I think that for R6 Siege, Ubisoft has handled this well by openly discussing the data that drives those changes. e.g. Tachanka rarely gets selected, and has a low win percentage when he does, so we're going to make him more appealing and test it out. Etc. There will always be people upset, but you can never please everyone.

If SoH can borrow from that design philosophy in any way, it should make changes easier on the community.
Communication and transparency.

Nothing kills a game community quicker than the feeling it's "us vs them" between players and devs, and communication and honesty is how to fight that.

Obviously, so far, SoH is doing a fantastic job of this, that's why we're all supporting it so strongly. It's great that they're willing mine us for enemy group or costume ideas. That helps us feel like we belong.

It'd be nice if mechanics was another of those areas. I don't mind waiting for things to settle a bit, but it's something that will affect the whole playstyle and feel of the game. Admittedly, it's also the thing I enjoy most, as a coder and amateur game-designer, so there's obviously some bias there :P

DCUO is guilty of the us vs them mentality. The devs are partly to blame because they troll their boards. Yes, I did not stutter, their devs troll the players, literally. Besides the actual trolling, the communication between the players and developers were nonexistent. They have improved but the us vs them mentality still lingers because it should have never existed.

Once a game gets into that us vs them zone, it is very hard to get out. One of the worst things a mmo can do is build a culture that is lacking communication and transparency. I want SoH to succeed because they look to be a great group of people. Character matters. That 2p.com interview was golden. I heard a great deal of "The community" being tossed around by them, I like what they are doing.


Return to “Announcements”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests