"Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Consultant
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"Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Consultant » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:05 am

Yesterday one of our devs suggested adding a power (he called it "Meat Shield") for tanks. It would be something that tank chooses to take, or does not, rather than an inherent power.

His idea is that the tank should cast a wide (90 degrees?) field behind him which increases defense and resistance to squishy players who are following him at a distance (out of AOE range around him), as a buff.

This would give the support, healers and devastators a safer spot in chaotic battles to cluster.

Of course decisions like this can have unintended consequences. If we did implement something like this, it might create a guild of cute girl tanks in short shorts, as fewer would presumably follow an Ambassador-esque figure if they are going to be looking at the tank's posterior all of the time.

So, how do people feel about a Meat Shield power?

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Golden Ace
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Golden Ace » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:14 am

I am okay with it but I think it should be in AoE, Not in an arc directly behind your character.

When in combat I can’t tell you how many times you get turned around in a battle Leaving your teammates without a buff.


As for cute girl tanks…

Well what the heck, Ace can always use a few new girlfriends.
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GladDog
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby GladDog » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:21 am

Most games have a Guardian's Aura or Protector's Blessing type power. Two types exist.

1 - The one that was described, although it is usually a PBAoE effect placed on a character, normally the primary healer. It deflects a certain percentage of damage away from the character being protected. So lets say the healer gets hit by a 100 point attack. The Guardian's Aura absorbs 50% of that and puts it on the tank. If the tank has 50% resistance to that type of damage, he takes 25 points damage. Since tanks typically have more HP than anyone else on the team, he can take it, and the healer can heal him if the aforementioned healer gets attacked too often. With this one the squishies tend to hang close to the healer.

2 - same as above, but a single target, and this gets tricky. The tank has to keep moving his protection blessing to whoever is being attacked. Once you've worked with this for a while it gets pretty routine, but at first the tank is pulling out his hair! In EQ2 I had a macro set up so I targeted the friendly and clicked a key to transfer the protection, which was a lot simpler than how you did it with mouse clicks.

Typically the mitigated damage is treated as healing as far as agro goes, Meaning that every time the bad guy hits someone being protected. agro builds on the tank.

The amount being mitigated would usually change with the tier of the power. For this game it would probably be best to use Damage Resistance augments to increase the effect.

This would not be a good inherent power. Some tanks rely on defense, and have very little damage resistance. Unless there was a way to work the chance to hit into the mitigation formula (sounds like a big headache) a defense based tank would melt in seconds. This would be better as a power in the tanker version of a damage resistance or defense-resistance based set.
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Golden Ace
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Golden Ace » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:47 am

I was actually kind of thinking that this type of power would better be suited for a shield defender.
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby AxerJ » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:52 pm

I like the idea of a tanker type hero leading the team forward, but not so keen on having position potentially limited in-battle. Part of the fun is moving around freely, and sometimes it's awesome for blasters to take up a high-ground position and rain fire or whatever down like a wizard :P I think I tend more to power-driven positional defense increases - a defender, or even a tank, creating a force field to take cover in during a boss's assault attack, for example. I do like asking us to position ourselves well - what if heroes had to stand shoulder to shoulder in a line to receive some kind of (once an hour) 3-minute buff? Cinematic start to a tough fight!

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Odee
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Odee » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:07 pm

Yesterday one of our devs suggested adding a power (he called it "Meat Shield") for tanks. It would be something that tank chooses to take, or does not, rather than an inherent power...

So, how do people feel about a Meat Shield power?
Oh the mental images this topic brings to mind :lol:
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Dying Breath
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Dying Breath » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:26 am

No thank you. Do not want.

I suspect that you will have a difficult enough time balancing Defenders and Devastators without allowing Tanks to add supplemental buffs.

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Kelvinkole
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Kelvinkole » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:33 am

Do not approve. Please leave buffing, protecting, and healing to defenders and devastators.

If something like this is going to exist, put it in an ancillary power pool like Leadership in CoH which all characters have access to

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Ridgeman
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Ridgeman » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:07 pm

Yeah, seems like that's treading into territory of Defenders and Devastators. If anything, maybe give the tanks an ability that'll reduce threat generated by their teammate(s) -- not redirecting it, though. That's opening up a griefing can that's better left closed, IMO.

On the other hand, I don't see the harm in giving tanks an ability that'll reduce damage inflicted by their target(s) so as to encourage better teamwork.

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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby GladDog » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:57 pm

Almost all MMORPGs based on the trinity have a tank ability to mitigate damage away from the tank's chosen target. Some of them use click powers with a timer, some use a power that only affects the next attack or two on the tank's selected ally. Some of them use a toggle that is either PBAoE or single target. The bottom line is that CoH was one of the very few games that did not have such a power. Even DCUO and CO have such a power for some of their tank sets.

As a veteran tanker in numerous games, this ability is pretty doggone useful. I don't really like something that forces your teammates to group up in one spot right behind the tank, making them susceptible to AoE attacks that were meant for the tank.

I don't like the idea of something like this being a tanker inherent power, but I do like the idea of something like this being a click power on a timer as a PBAoE that the tank can choose from their powerset. Also, such a power should be tank only, and replaced by something else, such as a stealth or placate power, for Brawlers.
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Kelvinkole
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Kelvinkole » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:58 pm

Almost all MMORPGs based on the trinity have a tank ability to mitigate damage away from the tank's chosen target. Some of them use click powers with a timer, some use a power that only affects the next attack or two on the tank's selected ally. Some of them use a toggle that is either PBAoE or single target. The bottom line is that CoH was one of the very few games that did not have such a power. Even DCUO and CO have such a power for some of their tank sets.
Mostly though, from my experiences, those skills I involve splitting the damage received by the target with the tank. I'm sure there are examples out there that don't fit that mold.

I'm okay with skills that split damage as that encourages some teamwork and has a trade-off, it's not a direct buff.

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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Hadder » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:08 pm

Yesterday one of our devs suggested adding a power (he called it "Meat Shield") for tanks. It would be something that tank chooses to take, or does not, rather than an inherent power.
I think this should not be so much a power but an intended skill of being a tank.
His idea is that the tank should cast a wide (90 degrees?) field behind him which increases defense and resistance to squishy players who are following him at a distance (out of AOE range around him), as a buff.

This would give the support, healers and devastators a safer spot in chaotic battles to cluster.
I am thinking a "telegraph defense" effect would work. Like how telegraphed attacks work but in reverse and would project behind the tank so those "standing in his/her wake" would know where to stand and how far the area would be covered. Perhaps it can be staggered based on distance. as well. The closer he/she is to the target, the wider the band, the further away, the narrower the band.

Perhaps it can be affected by the tank's health as well. (See below)
Of course decisions like this can have unintended consequences. If we did implement something like this, it might create a guild of cute girl tanks in short shorts, as fewer would presumably follow an Ambassador-esque figure if they are going to be looking at the tank's posterior all of the time.
I have no problem staring at a... err ahem... standing behind an Ambassador-esque posterior. :D
So, how do people feel about a Meat Shield power?
Here are some thoughts that could be cool.

(Telegraphed) Defensive Barrier (Manual Proc)
Based on Range with a Cone Attack and based on the tank's health when the ability is procced.

Image

Or how about the cone changes verses how close the tank is to the enemy. The tank and the rest of the party would need to constantly be aware of each other's movements because if the tank movies, so does the telegraph defense. You would also need to be aware of the Enemies movements because if the enemy jumps back and launch an AOE, the cone will change based on the range.

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happydolphin
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby happydolphin » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:56 am

Well I always imagined something similar that would make sense. Something like the tank could literally act like a wall to cover people standing behind him from projectiles. There could be an aura effect that as long as his allies stand somewhere behind him he will take all projectile and area of effect damage.

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Gerald_Deemer
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby Gerald_Deemer » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:27 pm

It seems like a nice idea. Make it an optional power and everyone should be able to live with it.
Can`t wait for the little cute girls using this as a tanker group. :D
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olepi
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Re: "Meat Shield" Power for Tanks?

Postby olepi » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:13 pm

I wouldn't want a cone that is based on the facing of the tank. It would make more sense to be to be a pbaoe of the tank, or an aura. If you are within x feet of the tanker, you are shielded, no matter what direction the tank is facing.
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