Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

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Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Consultant » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:50 am

We have a question for the community. We're hoping to crowdsource the answer, so here goes:

What's the maximum number of players who can participate in a raid or a big battle in MMOs that you know about?

For example, it is pretty well established that in COH the maximum size of the hero party that could participate in a Hamidon Raid was 50. The zone was set that way.

We're looking for examples from all MMOs, including COH, of the maximum number of players in raid situations. The best answers will have a video or a text substantiation or link for them. Also we need to be aware that there can be more than one correct answer. In WOW the maximum size of a raid (or so I'm told) depends on what year you are considering.

Also, think about PVE and PVP separately, since many excellent games, like PUBG, for example, may have 100 player battles, but a player rarely sees more than 5 or 6 other players at a time, except in the cut scenes. Compared to the Hamidon Raid, where 50 players would huddle together, share buffs while looking at the enemies in the distance, many modern PVP games have a substantial difference in terms of the number of actors on the screen at once, with powers operating.

So, what examples can we find, share, and agree are correct??

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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby GladDog » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:49 am

At first, the Hami raids were capped at 240, which was a HUGE mistake. When you got around 200, the fps would fall to about 1 frame every 3-5 seconds! So they changed the raid and lowered the player cap to 80. I did not think that they lowered it again, I thought it was still 80 towards the end of the game.

Personally, I think the player cap for an instanced raid should be about 50. Beyond that the tactics in a smallish area become harrowing at best. In a non-instanced raid the player cap should be the same as the cap for megaserver shards. So if a shard is capped at 75, that should be the max for a non-instanced raid.
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Golden Ace » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:10 am

I am all for a smaller number such as 50 or 75 just because Some people will not have high-end computers and good connections - the lag Would be terrible For anything larger. Heck it might even be terrible for that size. But at some point you have to draw the line
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Consultant » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:43 pm

Can I get some documented examples of the maximum allowable size of big battles or raids in other MMOs?

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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Consultant » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:18 am

Wow, no ones knows? That curious!

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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Golden Ace » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:28 am

Wow, no ones knows? That curious!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q5Zn_ZkehM
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby GladDog » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:36 am

I know a few of them.

DCUO raids are 10 people. That's it. A frequent request in that game is larger raids. but after 7 years they are still stuck on 10. Typical team; 2 Controllers, 2 healers, 4 DPS, 1 tank and 1 that switches between tank and DPS.

EQ2 raids can have as many as 48. Raids are all instanced and raid difficulty scales to the size of the raid team. Some can be done with as few as 12, but with most it is the more the merrier.

WoW has several types of raids. 6 people, 12 people, 20 people and 40 people. As the raid size scales up, the difficulty raises very, very quickly. You need to gear up with smaller raids to be able to tackle larger raids.
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Consultant » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:53 pm

This claims to be a 700-man WOW raid from 2005. But I kind of eyeball a size of more like 80. Still, I don't really play WOW so maybe it is more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onZxxuKzGA8

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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Blue Yankee » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:52 pm

I know a few of them.

DCUO raids are 10 people. That's it. A frequent request in that game is larger raids. but after 7 years they are still stuck on 10. Typical team; 2 Controllers, 2 healers, 4 DPS, 1 tank and 1 that switches between tank and DPS.

EQ2 raids can have as many as 48. Raids are all instanced and raid difficulty scales to the size of the raid team. Some can be done with as few as 12, but with most it is the more the merrier.

WoW has several types of raids. 6 people, 12 people, 20 people and 40 people. As the raid size scales up, the difficulty raises very, very quickly. You need to gear up with smaller raids to be able to tackle larger raids.
I would like for events that increase in difficulty with group size have a smaller number of players, while events that do not increase in difficulty to have unlimited players.

The more people you have the more leeches and dead weight you will pick up. Keep group size small if difficulty connects to group size. Such as raids in mission maps.
If the difficulty is static (or capped), let all comers join my team. This would be good for open map events.

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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Avatar PDM » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:49 am

I agree with Blue Yankee
Not more than 50 (and best would be, that if you are only getting 20 people than it should still be possible - maybe the Monster would loose a certain percentage of its health points when less people are around)
For one - if you got players who are in a smaller team it is getting complicated organizing all the raid cooperations.
Also it is a problem (at least for the beginning) when you have players on our side of the ocean - for whom it could be a problem playing with the 6-10 hour time difference for getting that many players gathered
Or you do it like, giving an info out that everyone can read on their chat box, that a raid is going to start at a certain time - maybe twice a day (still should be possible to enter the mission manually on a self chosen time too if you can organize the team ;) )
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Pyrion » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:54 am

I would set the number lower. It's nice to have very big numbers, but at the same time *my* contribution will be totally irrellevant with such big numbers. For me, 30 would be enough.

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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Golden Ace » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:48 am

I was thinking the same thing. lets start our first one with 20-25 the next one we can have more if needed.
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Avatar PDM » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:54 am

so it is decided and sanctioned by G.A. - 20 people is agreed :D
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby GladDog » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:30 pm

This claims to be a 700-man WOW raid from 2005. But I kind of eyeball a size of more like 80. Still, I don't really play WOW so maybe it is more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onZxxuKzGA8
That is not a raid. That is an open zone PvP event. There is a big, big difference. Blizzard actually took steps to prevent these from happening going forward. Some of the best fun I had in WoW was during open PvP occurring between South Shore and a nearby Horde site, I forget the name, think it was Whatzahoozit's Hammer... man, there were some EPIC battles, with hundreds of players going at it tooth and nail! Many of them would last for hours and hours. I was in one that lasted for about 12 hours, and I was involved for about 6 hours. I fought for about 4 hours, then stopped to go have dinner and hang out with my wife, and then I went back a couple of hours later. And, the fight was still going on! So I jumped in for a couple of more hours!

Apparently these massive battles caused problems, because they closed South Shore, and a Horde base that was close to an Alliance base on the other continent. They reopened new ones that were too far away for PvP events...
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Re: Maximum Raid Size in MMOs?

Postby Avatar PDM » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:47 am

This claims to be a 700-man WOW raid from 2005. But I kind of eyeball a size of more like 80. Still, I don't really play WOW so maybe it is more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onZxxuKzGA8
That is not a raid. That is an open zone PvP event. There is a big, big difference. Blizzard actually took steps to prevent these from happening going forward. Some of the best fun I had in WoW was during open PvP occurring between South Shore and a nearby Horde site, I forget the name, think it was Whatzahoozit's Hammer... man, there were some EPIC battles, with hundreds of players going at it tooth and nail! Many of them would last for hours and hours. I was in one that lasted for about 12 hours, and I was involved for about 6 hours. I fought for about 4 hours, then stopped to go have dinner and hang out with my wife, and then I went back a couple of hours later. And, the fight was still going on! So I jumped in for a couple of more hours!

Apparently these massive battles caused problems, because they closed South Shore, and a Horde base that was close to an Alliance base on the other continent. They reopened new ones that were too far away for PvP events...
I only played WoW for a month or so, because it disappointed me so much, but just out of curiousity - Is there anything like a raid at WoW at all?
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