Paragon Chat

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Galactus55
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Paragon Chat

Postby Galactus55 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:01 pm

Has anyone else been to Paragon Chat and looked around? It will bring tears to your eyes once inside.

And make you want to play Ship of Heroes all the more.
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Consultant » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:28 am

It IS very cool.

It is also incredible. Lots of the old COH zones exactly re-created. That must have taken an enormous amount of effort. I wonder how they did it.

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GladDog
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby GladDog » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:04 am

Yep, I went on there a few weeks ago, and it was pretty nostalgic. Looking forward to the next generation of bashing villains heads!
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Styrj
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Styrj » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:48 am

I log-in to PC on a daily basis just to visit places/maps I didn't get a chance to visit when the game was live. The current version is 1.0.13, and as far as I know, it is mostly a one person show.
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Greyhawk
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Greyhawk » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:51 am

The zones are not "recreated".

Paragon Chat uses the Issue 24 City of Heroes Freedom client. Instead of connecting it to a game server, it connects the client to a chat server. As a result, all of the costume and power options are open because there is no pay shop. The downside is, because there is no game server, the powers do not work outside the character creator. The team behind the project has managed to get travel powers functional, sort of, so movement is not difficult. It is possible to open the Mission Architect interface and create missions, but it is not possible to run them because powers and NPC interactions do not work so there is no way to enter mission instances. It is also possible to move between maps with a few keystrokes.

It is very relaxing and therapeutic to open the character creator and create characters. Seeing the powers in action in the power customization window is truly awe-inspiring. I know many modern games have better effects, but for the time, CoH power effects were spectacular and still are.

Unfortunately, it is also heartbreaking to travel through the deserted city with no way to run missions or experience the story. Nostalgic, but heartbreaking.
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Consultant » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:20 am

I feel your pain. We actually do not look at PC here, among the dev team. First, we are swamped (in a good way) and second, we need to be certain we are creating our own stuff, and no accidentally duplicating any NC Soft IP. But years ago I did look at it.

While I have no inside knowledge at all, I do not think COH is ever coming back. So in a way, one of the biggest barriers to making a successful game to follow COH is that former players, including me, would like to have the old game back. In some ways our community does not want to move forward at all, instead we feel a powerful desire to move back to what was, or at least to what we remember.

This powerful nostalgia has interesting effects. Every now and again someone sends me a message asking why the graphics in SoH are so much less realistic than COH was. Well, this is a rose-covered glasses effect. The engine and graphics for COH were pretty old when the game closed, and we have the newest/best engine and graphics with UE4. Our SoH graphics are actually much, much better and more realistic than COH ever was.

But people's memories are funny things. COH was great for its time. So in memory, it gets upgraded every year. :)

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GladDog
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby GladDog » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:29 am

Hmm... I have some inside information, and IMO NCsoft was trolling the CoH affecianos with the 'maybe we will sell it' talk. But the asking price for the IP is far, far too high, and the window to regain CoH fans is getting smaller and smaller. At the price they are asking (I've heard several figures, the lowest being $14,000,000 and the highest exceeding $60,000,000) no one would have the slightest chance to recoup their investment, and no one is going to throw away several million just so they can play a 13 year old game. Some industry types estimated that $4,000,000 was the highest possible price that gave the buyer a reasonable chance to break even back when the servers shut down. That price is probably down to well below $1,000,000 right now. With all of the successor projects heavily invested in their projects, none of them are going to stop even if CoH was revived. And with that much competition, there won't be enough diehard CoH fans to make the purchase worthwhile.

At that price, and not accepting any payment terms other than cash up front, they are well aware that no one will want the IP.

This led to a rumor that CoH2 MUST be in the works - why should NCsoft hang onto a dead IP that so many are willing to pay millions for? Many assumed they must have plans for it. But there has not been a breath of a leak anywhere about CoH2. In fact, unless they have better security than Kim Jong-un, I doubt there is any possibility of CoH2 releasing.

In the end, to prevent legal hassles, NCsoft must have decided to let the IP (other than Statesman in MxM) wither on the vine.
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broxen
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby broxen » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:05 am

Hmm... I have some inside information, and IMO NCsoft was trolling the CoH affecianos with the 'maybe we will sell it' talk. But the asking price for the IP is far, far too high, and the window to regain CoH fans is getting smaller and smaller. At the price they are asking (I've heard several figures, the lowest being $14,000,000 and the highest exceeding $60,000,000) no one would have the slightest chance to recoup their investment, and no one is going to throw away several million just so they can play a 13 year old game. Some industry types estimated that $4,000,000 was the highest possible price that gave the buyer a reasonable chance to break even back when the servers shut down. That price is probably down to well below $1,000,000 right now. With all of the successor projects heavily invested in their projects, none of them are going to stop even if CoH was revived. And with that much competition, there won't be enough diehard CoH fans to make the purchase worthwhile.

At that price, and not accepting any payment terms other than cash up front, they are well aware that no one will want the IP.

This led to a rumor that CoH2 MUST be in the works - why should NCsoft hang onto a dead IP that so many are willing to pay millions for? Many assumed they must have plans for it. But there has not been a breath of a leak anywhere about CoH2. In fact, unless they have better security than Kim Jong-un, I doubt there is any possibility of CoH2 releasing.

In the end, to prevent legal hassles, NCsoft must have decided to let the IP (other than Statesman in MxM) wither on the vine.
This is interesting. It lends credibility to the theory that NCSoft or Kim Taek-Jin held some kind of animosity or embarrassment towards Paragon Studios and CoH. It's also disheartening, because I'm sure there are plenty of investors (or simply fans) out there willing to pay a fair price for the IP.
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Galactus55
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Galactus55 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:57 pm

Yep, I went on there a few weeks ago, and it was pretty nostalgic. Looking forward to the next generation of bashing villains heads!
Indeed!!
A few questions in The HOLLOWS does anyone know what is making that background engine roaring sound? Also I never notice rather large Dragon head in the far back corner of Dark ASTORIA?
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Sinistar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:22 am

Also, you can get all the map badges in the zones now in paragon chat. Hero, Villain and Praeotrian zones all have the exploration badges up and running. The history plaques are not, but that's fine.

Also the ski slope is running and the badges are available from it.

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Warhead
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Warhead » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:14 am

Hmm... I have some inside information, and IMO NCsoft was trolling the CoH affecianos with the 'maybe we will sell it' talk. But the asking price for the IP is far, far too high, and the window to regain CoH fans is getting smaller and smaller. At the price they are asking (I've heard several figures, the lowest being $14,000,000 and the highest exceeding $60,000,000) no one would have the slightest chance to recoup their investment, and no one is going to throw away several million just so they can play a 13 year old game. Some industry types estimated that $4,000,000 was the highest possible price that gave the buyer a reasonable chance to break even back when the servers shut down. That price is probably down to well below $1,000,000 right now. With all of the successor projects heavily invested in their projects, none of them are going to stop even if CoH was revived. And with that much competition, there won't be enough diehard CoH fans to make the purchase worthwhile.

At that price, and not accepting any payment terms other than cash up front, they are well aware that no one will want the IP.

This led to a rumor that CoH2 MUST be in the works - why should NCsoft hang onto a dead IP that so many are willing to pay millions for? Many assumed they must have plans for it. But there has not been a breath of a leak anywhere about CoH2. In fact, unless they have better security than Kim Jong-un, I doubt there is any possibility of CoH2 releasing.

In the end, to prevent legal hassles, NCsoft must have decided to let the IP (other than Statesman in MxM) wither on the vine.
There is an interesting You Tube video regarding the game's shut down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YahAati0d2c

From this it sounds like even though the game was making enough to sustain itself in the US, it only amounted to like 4% (not sure if that is the exact amount) of NC Soft's revenue. They made a City of Heroes in Korea and it was not popular. So they freed up the space to develop other projects. The question of why they would not sell the IP is the big mystery. I don't think CoH2 was ever being considered since they want the game to be successful in their home country and it was already proven that the concept was not popular there.

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Solari
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Solari » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:26 am

This powerful nostalgia has interesting effects. Every now and again someone sends me a message asking why the graphics in SoH are so much less realistic than COH was. Well, this is a rose-covered glasses effect. The engine and graphics for COH were pretty old when the game closed, and we have the newest/best engine and graphics with UE4. Our SoH graphics are actually much, much better and more realistic than COH ever was.

But people's memories are funny things. COH was great for its time. So in memory, it gets upgraded every year. :)
Actually the CoH graphics were not bad at all after the facelift, and that's what people see in PC now. :)

I think SoH will look great, it's just in need of some lighting tweaks and some post-processing if you want to be more realistic rather than comic book. I don't know what the ultimate goal is regarding the look of the game, however and maybe you're pretty much already where you guys want to be.

I'm definitely one of those who would drop everything to play CoH again. PC makes me happy and sad at the same time.

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Warhead
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Warhead » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:16 am

Just upgrade my computer and got into Paragon Chat. There seem to be so many more costume parts than I remember. This is really going to help me get through the waiting. :)

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Jasix
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby Jasix » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:05 am

Never used Paragon Chat. If they had a base builder program...that I would use for hours and hours. When I played CoH I was social, but I was social during team ups etc. I'm not into RP etc so the idea of standing around and not being able to go whoop on bad guys doesn't interest me :(
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GladDog
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Re: Paragon Chat

Postby GladDog » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:31 am

Eh, PC is great for nostalgia. I went in there for a few hours a month or so ago and visited a lot of the zones. It was also a good reminder of how ancient the graphics look. The graphics were amazing in 2004; not so much in 2017.

Flying or Super Jumping around, and re-creating my favorite characters was fun, but yeah, not having usable powers or bad guys to whoop on got old pretty quickly.
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