CoH Revival Project: SEGS

SteelR4t
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby SteelR4t » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:17 am

I think it's worth mentioning that SEGS make a point of the fact that their back end server is their own product - fulfilling the requirements of the client to enable the client to actually run. The client (at the moment) is the freely available issue #0 beta client and they're making a point of removing intellectual properties like Statesman (which are generated server side anyway) and what have you. In addition, the missions will be player created, rather than the full mission set we had available in the old CoH.

If I understand things correctly, what we're actually going to get is more like a game wide AE, rather than the full mission set of the original game. The missions available on that will just be what any person who runs their own private servers creates. Perhaps there may be a feature where people can export their own missions so that people can import them into their own servers to play, but that is complete speculation on my part.

Factor in too that most CoH players have the i24 client on their machines from what we either had left over to make demos or for things like Paragon Chat and what have you. If all SEGS are doing is providing something private for the client to connect to, where's the problem legally? Surely the only time when there's likely to be a problem is if someone sets up a publicly available server, advertises it for everyone and then charges for its use.

I will admit, I'm no legal expert and I'm sure there will be people who will be happy to point out where I'm mistaken. Whilst the legality is grey, the SEGS developers appear to be well aware of the legalities of what they're doing and are doing their level best to work around them rather than flipping it the bird and hoping for the best. It's easy for us to point the finger and say "No you can't do that", but given how public SEGS are about their development cycle, they appear to be fairly confident (rightly or wrongly) that they're in the clear.

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broxen
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby broxen » Fri May 04, 2018 1:47 am

I've been absent for awhile, and truthfully it's because I've been spending my spare time contributing to SEGS.

I want to chime in because I think at the end of the day NCSoft will do what it will. I also dont think that one could argue that SEGS has in any way violated some trademark or copyright, or that it's negatively impacting NCSoft's revenue model.. so although IANAL, I'm struggling to see a vector for attack for NCSoft..

That all said, the Consultant is right.. NCSoft has a legal team and they will do what they will. Whether it holds up or carries any real weight is up to interpretation.

Ultimately, I'm looking forward to new endeavors like SoH, because I think there is a lot of life for a modern SuperHero MMO, especially one that truly listens to it's community (which SoH seems to do)... but at the same time I'm a sucker for nostalgia, and I'm going to keep contributing to SEGS because I want to see it fully realized and I want to create my own worlds built upon the CoH system.

I want both projects to succeed. In fact, I don't think that we have much overlap with projects like SoH. We're deliberately utilizing 14yr old technology, SoH is the next generation; the future. With a whole new concept that is really interesting.

I think I can safely speak for all of the SEGS devs when I say that we're really supportive of next generation Superhero MMOs. At the same time, we hope that the community is supportive of our efforts to recreate the magic of CoH in a way that also allows server owners to utilize their creativity to craft something new and interesting. Meanwhile, projects like SoH will show us what the next generation of Superhero MMOs will look like.
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Avatar PDM » Fri May 04, 2018 2:19 am

I've been absent for awhile, and truthfully it's because I've been spending my spare time contributing to SEGS.

I want to chime in because I think at the end of the day NCSoft will do what it will. I also dont think that one could argue that SEGS has in any way violated some trademark or copyright, or that it's negatively impacting NCSoft's revenue model.. so although IANAL, I'm struggling to see a vector for attack for NCSoft..

That all said, the Consultant is right.. NCSoft has a legal team and they will do what they will. Whether it holds up or carries any real weight is up to interpretation.

Ultimately, I'm looking forward to new endeavors like SoH, because I think there is a lot of life for a modern SuperHero MMO, especially one that truly listens to it's community (which SoH seems to do)... but at the same time I'm a sucker for nostalgia, and I'm going to keep contributing to SEGS because I want to see it fully realized and I want to create my own worlds built upon the CoH system.

I want both projects to succeed. In fact, I don't think that we have much overlap with projects like SoH. We're deliberately utilizing 14yr old technology, SoH is the next generation; the future. With a whole new concept that is really interesting.

I think I can safely speak for all of the SEGS devs when I say that we're really supportive of next generation Superhero MMOs. At the same time, we hope that the community is supportive of our efforts to recreate the magic of CoH in a way that also allows server owners to utilize their creativity to craft something new and interesting. Meanwhile, projects like SoH will show us what the next generation of Superhero MMOs will look like.
sounds good and understandable - so if I understood you right you have some deeper insight - so keep us informed :)
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A1fighter
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby A1fighter » Sat May 12, 2018 1:49 am

GL to them, I have a feeling there will be no superhero mmo left soon. The more the merrier. If they can do missions and combat that would be awesome. I would jump in. Sounds like a community effort though.

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Solari
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Solari » Fri May 18, 2018 6:24 am

I've been absent for awhile, and truthfully it's because I've been spending my spare time contributing to SEGS.
I really hope this happens. Will it use the same enemy groups and powers or do new ones have to be created?

Thanks for contributing to SEGS - I've been exploring in Paragon Chat again lately looking for badges and came across the Ascendant tribute in Steel Canyon which was pretty cool (I had to look it up as I didn't remember that given that I played on Union). PC is like self-flagellation but I can't help it as I miss CoH so much. :(

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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Golden Ace » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:06 pm

has anyone been following up on this? how close are they?
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby GladDog » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:52 pm

They have server side software ready, as well as client software, for Atlas Park. While I have not tried it, it looks fairly ready. These servers are private servers, probably limited to the bandwidth of the server owner. I would imagine that 32 would be as many as would reliably work right now for a residential broadband connection. AFAIK, there are no missions, but a basic mission editor is ready. And it looks like you can street sweep.

If someone could verify this; I would love to be wrong and see that there is a much more complete game in place...
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Solari
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Solari » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:53 am

They have server side software ready, as well as client software, for Atlas Park. While I have not tried it, it looks fairly ready. These servers are private servers, probably limited to the bandwidth of the server owner. I would imagine that 32 would be as many as would reliably work right now for a residential broadband connection. AFAIK, there are no missions, but a basic mission editor is ready. And it looks like you can street sweep.

If someone could verify this; I would love to be wrong and see that there is a much more complete game in place...
Well I've got a meaty VPS with 1Gig internet connection that's not doing a lot right now so would be quite happy to run a SEGS server! :)

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broxen
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby broxen » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:41 am

They have server side software ready, as well as client software, for Atlas Park. While I have not tried it, it looks fairly ready. These servers are private servers, probably limited to the bandwidth of the server owner. I would imagine that 32 would be as many as would reliably work right now for a residential broadband connection. AFAIK, there are no missions, but a basic mission editor is ready. And it looks like you can street sweep.

If someone could verify this; I would love to be wrong and see that there is a much more complete game in place...
Heh, thank you for your support but you give us too much credit.

Progress is happening, but we far from being able to street sweep. Currently we're working on correcting server side movement calculations to line up with the clients. We are spawning NPCs but they are static, and no one has tackled powers yet.

Some major architectural changes went in recently that laid the groundwork for multiple map instances, which means that zone transfers will be coming soon. We're also implementing some unit testing to ease development. Our team is also working on improvements to the admintool for server setup, the email system, some behind the scenes NetCommands for client<->server communication, and probably other things I'm forgetting right now.

Anyway, we're really excited with the progress and hope our next release will be well received by the community. Our list of contributors has grown significantly in the last six months and we're excited to see all the progress that has been made in such a short time.

I still lurk here, because I'm excited about SoH. But I try to avoid posting much about SEGS. I'll keep an eye on this thread if anyone wants the occasional update, but honestly our discord, Twitter, or GitHub are better resources for up to date news on our progress. You can find those links online pretty easily.

Cheers guys!
-Broxen

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Golden Ace
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Golden Ace » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:26 pm

Thank you Broxen.

myself i'll probably never do a server for others to join. but I would do one for a single player game.
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Solari
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Solari » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:36 pm

snippety snip snip
Hey Broxen,

Thanks for all the hard work... will there be a Patreon or similar for this project?

Delivering a playable, street-sweeping Atlas Park would be a platform to raise some money IMO to push things along. :)

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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Avatar PDM » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:22 am

They have server side software ready, as well as client software, for Atlas Park. While I have not tried it, it looks fairly ready. These servers are private servers, probably limited to the bandwidth of the server owner. I would imagine that 32 would be as many as would reliably work right now for a residential broadband connection. AFAIK, there are no missions, but a basic mission editor is ready. And it looks like you can street sweep.

If someone could verify this; I would love to be wrong and see that there is a much more complete game in place...
Heh, thank you for your support but you give us too much credit.

Progress is happening, but we far from being able to street sweep. Currently we're working on correcting server side movement calculations to line up with the clients. We are spawning NPCs but they are static, and no one has tackled powers yet.

Some major architectural changes went in recently that laid the groundwork for multiple map instances, which means that zone transfers will be coming soon. We're also implementing some unit testing to ease development. Our team is also working on improvements to the admintool for server setup, the email system, some behind the scenes NetCommands for client<->server communication, and probably other things I'm forgetting right now.

Anyway, we're really excited with the progress and hope our next release will be well received by the community. Our list of contributors has grown significantly in the last six months and we're excited to see all the progress that has been made in such a short time.

I still lurk here, because I'm excited about SoH. But I try to avoid posting much about SEGS. I'll keep an eye on this thread if anyone wants the occasional update, but honestly our discord, Twitter, or GitHub are better resources for up to date news on our progress. You can find those links online pretty easily.

Cheers guys!
Thank you a lot and great that you guys are working on that, will surely be some nice thing to try out between the SoH Sessions :).
But I have a question, which is not completely clear to me. When you erase the trademark characters, will it be possible to put your own NPCs in the game (like for example when there normally would be Statesman standing around, you can change the optic and name of him into whatever you want?) with the character creator, like we did with the missions creator in the late versions of CoH?
And will it be possible to have it in a version, which I can use like a Single Player version offline? (I am from time to time offline travelling and it would be nice to play anyway ;) )
What is Reality, what a Dream? Is the dream changing your reality or is the reality defining your dreams? Only one being aware, that awareness can never be complete can use both to become the best possible and combine both to form the future! PDM

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broxen
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby broxen » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:20 pm

Hey Broxen,

Thanks for all the hard work... will there be a Patreon or similar for this project?

Delivering a playable, street-sweeping Atlas Park would be a platform to raise some money IMO to push things along. :)
We have no plans to accept money for our efforts, donations or otherwise.
-Broxen

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broxen
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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby broxen » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:45 pm

Thank you a lot and great that you guys are working on that, will surely be some nice thing to try out between the SoH Sessions :).
But I have a question, which is not completely clear to me. When you erase the trademark characters, will it be possible to put your own NPCs in the game (like for example when there normally would be Statesman standing around, you can change the optic and name of him into whatever you want?) with the character creator, like we did with the missions creator in the late versions of CoH?
And will it be possible to have it in a version, which I can use like a Single Player version offline? (I am from time to time offline travelling and it would be nice to play anyway ;) )
These are questions we get asked a lot. Let me try to clarify here.
1- There is a lot of confusion around whether or not a server operator can create a server with these iconic characters (Statesman, etc) and the answer is absolutely.

The distinction is this, the SEGS team will never release recreated content from the game that cannot be found directly within the client files. So what does this mean? Well...

Contacts and NPCs, such as Ms. Liberty or the infected in Outbreak: a large amount of their data is in the client. Placement, costumes, names, and even a small amount of Dialog. So all of this information can be loaded into the server programatically. SEGS will try to add as much of this as possible, while providing scripts that can override this data with custom values.

So what's not included? Well, a LARGE amount of Dialog, any mission logic, reward information, etc. So in a word: Quests.

Why not just include these? It's somewhat of a legal gray area, and we're hoping that by providing tools (some kind of scripting language) the community will help fill in the gaps here. BUT ALSO, how cool that you'll be able to make your own adventures and all new NPCs.

I hope this clears things up.

2- There will be no offline version, as you'll always need a server to connect to. That said, you can run a private server for yourself, on your own machine, and be the only one with an account. Effectively, this would be single player.

Think of it like the private UO shards. Some of them try to recreate what Origin had on the live servers exactly, while others try to make something new and unique. This flexibility gives us the best of all worlds (of the CoH multiverse 😜)
-Broxen

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Re: CoH Revival Project: SEGS

Postby Avatar PDM » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:37 am

Thank you a lot and great that you guys are working on that, will surely be some nice thing to try out between the SoH Sessions :).
But I have a question, which is not completely clear to me. When you erase the trademark characters, will it be possible to put your own NPCs in the game (like for example when there normally would be Statesman standing around, you can change the optic and name of him into whatever you want?) with the character creator, like we did with the missions creator in the late versions of CoH?
And will it be possible to have it in a version, which I can use like a Single Player version offline? (I am from time to time offline travelling and it would be nice to play anyway ;) )
These are questions we get asked a lot. Let me try to clarify here.
1- There is a lot of confusion around whether or not a server operator can create a server with these iconic characters (Statesman, etc) and the answer is absolutely.

The distinction is this, the SEGS team will never release recreated content from the game that cannot be found directly within the client files. So what does this mean? Well...

Contacts and NPCs, such as Ms. Liberty or the infected in Outbreak: a large amount of their data is in the client. Placement, costumes, names, and even a small amount of Dialog. So all of this information can be loaded into the server programatically. SEGS will try to add as much of this as possible, while providing scripts that can override this data with custom values.

So what's not included? Well, a LARGE amount of Dialog, any mission logic, reward information, etc. So in a word: Quests.

Why not just include these? It's somewhat of a legal gray area, and we're hoping that by providing tools (some kind of scripting language) the community will help fill in the gaps here. BUT ALSO, how cool that you'll be able to make your own adventures and all new NPCs.

I hope this clears things up.

2- There will be no offline version, as you'll always need a server to connect to. That said, you can run a private server for yourself, on your own machine, and be the only one with an account. Effectively, this would be single player.

Think of it like the private UO shards. Some of them try to recreate what Origin had on the live servers exactly, while others try to make something new and unique. This flexibility gives us the best of all worlds (of the CoH multiverse 😜)
thanks again for the answer :)
I am really looking forward creating my own universe :)
What is Reality, what a Dream? Is the dream changing your reality or is the reality defining your dreams? Only one being aware, that awareness can never be complete can use both to become the best possible and combine both to form the future! PDM


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