What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Meridian
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What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Meridian » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:42 am

The base game is free. This is in the brief FAQ, but not on the Campaign page anywhere to correlate with rewards.

There's no information about subscriptions, although you don't get any subscription time for less than $100, so for most backers that may not matter. It's hard to correlate any "month" reward with any kind of value, and that's assuming you value playing a Beta at the same rate as a ready-to-launch game.

There's no stretch goals so what you get is what you get.

$25 - Playtest a Beta for one month. You can save your character design(s) but there's not really much advantage to that over FTP.
$50 - 1 month of Beta plus one name reservation and one founder cape
$100 - 1 month of Beta plus 1 month in game post-launch? Or 1 month of something else unknown. Founder title.
$150 - 1 month of Beta (?) and 6 months retroactive playtime status for rewards and "small" amount of dust.
(Also, we are founding empires? Am I missing something?)

It's good that the team has game design experience but they need to enlist someone with Kickstarter experience right now.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm trying to be pro-active about resurrecting (~ish) the best game I've ever played in my life, by far--and I'm 45, I've played a lot of games. I take one look at this and I think "This needs our help."

I'm worried this post will be deleted, but it shouldn't be, it should be "Yes, and"ed by helpful people who want to see this game succeed.

There's still 34 days left, but if I showed this to any of my gamer friends (including ones who play MMO's, let alone CoH--which is a couple) they wouldn't back this.

It's fine to say that for those of us who "believe" we're just giving money to something in the hopes that it succeeds, and that's fine as far as it goes.

But this Kickstarter needs 8000 people to give $50 each or 4000 to give $100, and this is assuming that the average donor wants to pay more than $25 for a month of Beta.

I assume everyone has seen a Kickstarter before but I've never seen one that looks like this and that wants this much money for so little.
If you haven't, here are some (not even all!) of the games I've backed just in the last year or two.
I'm omitting anything with a big name like Pillars of Eternity 2, Wasteland 2 (or 3), Bard's Tale, Battletech, [Planescape] Torment Tides of Numenera and anything else I'm forgetting.

Generally speaking with crowdfunded games, it's clear what you're getting, there are stretch goals to encourage you to get friends to join, and there are some fancy graphics and so forth that look like some marketers put them together to increase the wow factor.

In my opinion, none of these KS campaigns look like the Ship of Heroes kickstarter, they are all clear about rewards, stretch goals, and generally not vague about the business model (price of the game or subscription, etc).

They averaged $3 to $50 per backer.

Here is a crowdfunded Kickstarter that actually got around $400,000 (the target for Ship of Heroes) but it took 11,000 backers. Built-in Diablo fanbase, similar to CoH?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wolcenstudio/umbra

Here is a purely indie old-school MMORPG with some minor starpower (Patrick Rothfuss) attached that got over 3,000 backers and $100,000, which is 1/4 of SoH's goal. [The game failed, btw]
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hero-s-song-game-rpg#/

3000+ backers $180,000+ dollars (old-school CRPG)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ne ... resurgence?

8-bit MOBA (with card collecting) 3000+ backers $130,000+
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/keithlee/duelyst

Here's a game with a built-in fanbase of fantasy fiction novels. Similar to CoH fanbase? Approx 6000 backers and $300,000.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/keithlee/duelyst

Indie roguelike action RPG, 3000 backers and $100,000 USD
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fo ... the-king-0

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby GladDog » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:57 am

Their only stretch goal is to get the game done quicker. They don't want to cloud their work with pie in the sky initiatives that just slow them down. Once they have income they can add things.

That said, I agree. This is not on the radar enough, nor is it explained well enough. The rabid fans on the forum are all in because we have done our homework. What needs to be done is to figure out how to get the target audience to answer the test questions correctly without the homework.
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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby broxen » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:07 am

I'd really like to see this KS succeed, and ideally, blow the goal out of the water, but I have to agree. Meridian has some valid points.

I've backed some really successful Kickstarters, and the ones that have truly crushed it have offered concise and clear information about what you're getting for chipping in, while demonstrating that value in a simple way.

I felt the video did a great job of showing the dev team's progress, but the content and overview lacked a definite value proposition for a backer, and the reward tiers were underwhelming at best, and unclear at worst.

Say I decide to back at the Deep Pockets level, what do I really get for that? To me it sounds like all I get is a copy of the game, 2 reserved character names, an account name (which I assume is just my login? I don't get it) some unquantified amount of Dust, an in game currency; and 2 months early access. $500 seems steep for a (presumably) $60 title that I can't play for a year at least, a name-check and some in-game cash, with no subscription time or other rewards to make me feel special for having donated 5x your average donor.

Maybe I'm missing some things, but then that's the rub.. it's not clear to potential backers.

Some other questions:
What does Veterancy really grant me?
What are Veteran Rewards and what kind of rewards should I expect?
What is dust? (I know... but this was the first question a friend asked me)
Are reward tiers stacked? (Having funded several Kickstarters I figured they were, but sometimes they aren't, so..)
Do I get a copy of the game for backing? What if I only back $1? What will the game retail for after launch?
Will there be a subscription to play? How much? Does my backing offer any subscription time?
Fund what empire? Is this tongue in cheek? I don't understand.
How many servers?
How do you intend to complete an ambitious title with only $400k?
Are you buying premade assets or creating everything from scratch?
What level of polish should I expect from the end product?
The storyline is not incredibly engaging. Superheroes in space? Why? Why not another dimension or another planet?
Is Nagdelians really just Dang Aliens?
What kind of zones will exist? Do you have concept art for any of those zones?
What other mob types are there? What other mob groups?
When creating the character in the video, she enters the world floating. Do we get to fly automatically? Do all heroes fly?
When you created the character, she loads into the world and then you cut away to her again later. Is that entire game process cohesive and completed thus far?
The city is flat, aren't there any simulated hills or terrain on this ship?
Is there a day night cycle and what does that look like?
Is there simulated weather?
How big can a group be and can we have leagues or raids?
In general more information about game mechanics would be great. Maybe a second video.
Are there pets or mounts, or vehicles?
How does questing or missions work?
How will mission architect work? Do you even have this?
What features will be available at launch and what is slated for release after?

I'm sure there are more too, but the idea is simple: more information on what value backers are paying for.

I don't know how Kickstarter works, so maybe they don't let you modify the tiers after starting, but I highly recommend a rewrite and possible reconfiguration of the tier rewards.

Also, if the intention is to truly have no stretch goals, but simply use those funds to speed development then say so somewhere. I missed that in the overview.

Finally, I would use the update section weekly, and perhaps even write a kickoff post to provide some additional information and acknowledge some of the concerns people are raising here and on discussion posts at MMORPG.com, Massively OP, Reddit, and City of Titans Message Boards.

Just my 2¢. I already backed the campaign. I'm really just trying to help. You have to sell the product to an audience that doesn't know they want a new superhero MMO; has been burned by MMO campaigns in the past; isn't familiar with any of your lore or back story; and may not even know about city of heroes, or if they do, may have a bad memory of it.

TL:DR: rewrite overview and reward tiers
-Broxen

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Consultant » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:34 am

Wow, these are some long posts, so I may take a couple of posts to explain where we are at. Broxen, we would never delete your post -- you are trying to help us. We get that.

First a couple of things that were on our minds as we offered up this set or rewards:

1. There are two competing theories about Kickstarter. The official one, which Kickstarter promotes, is that the site is designed to enable a community to fund projects with a serious art component, that will not get made otherwise. The second one, which Kickstarter explicitly rejects, is that Kickstarters offer backers a chance to buy goods at a discount, as a sort of pre-pay KMart auction house. We are working on theory one. I know it catches me by surprise to hear that backers, who have thanking us for going without salaries for over a year to build something for our community, using our own personal savings, are now concerned about how many months of free game play they will receive as a major consideration for donating.

2. You can look at the Kickstarters for City of Titans, Valiance Online, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, or Chronicles of Elyria. Surprisingly, the average donation is generally a bit above $100. Games in general average about $35. MMORPG averages are far more likely to be above $100 per donor. And so is the average for Ship of Heroes. This is normal.

3. Yes, the reward tiers stack. Yes, by donating you get the game for free. Yes, you get to play in the Beta free, and no we did not predict the monthly sub cost. We have however given a couple of points about the monthly sub cost: Since we're not looking to make this game a huge money-maker, monthly sub cost will be determined by actual costs when the game launches, with a discount for comitting to a longer period (12 months versus 1 month). I can tell you exactly what the monthly sub cost will be once I know how many players will be playing, what the cost of cloud computing will be two years from now, and how much customer service will cost, which depends on a bunch of things that are still unknowable. $8-15 per month is what we've been discussing on the forums. Would it really have been better if we said the game is going to cost $50 at launch but everyone gets between 1 and 6 months of free sub cost? All I can say about the desire for free months as opposed to a free game is that this was not clear to us.

4. You've asked a lot of questions that we thought the community would already know by now. Let me try to address some of them; Veteran rewards, amount of dust, are not settled. We were trying to set in place some additional rewards for donating. Number of servers relates to number of subscribers -- it's unknowable right now, but we've said often that we want to minimize that number because it divides the playerbase into sub-communities. The city is most definitely not flat, the day/night cycle has been shown in numerous pictures taken from sunrise to sunset. The Torch video explicitly shows the City at night. We committed in the KS page (and elsewhere) to a team size of up to ten. We've discussed the excellent raiding options of the game, and said there will be player-designed missions -- we've even shown which building the player-designed missions will be launched from (next to City Hall). Ship of Heroes is a subscription game.

Broxen, again thanks to you for posting so much feedback. No one sits down and writes something like you did without wanting the game to succeed. We hear that in your words. An update along the lines you suggested is a great idea.

The fundamental value proposition of Ship of Heroes is not how many months of free play you receive for donating, but rather whether you want to have a game, any game, actually get built and get launched with the kind of positive and supportive community that COH had. Do we just need a game where we take a crude character model and run around the slums of 1970's Detroit, shooting gang members while dressed in Spandex? Is that enough? Or do we need powerful character customization, positive community, a focus on teaming, and a new setting that allows us to start again, and which can actually grow enormously over time? We're offering the latter. That's what this Kickstarter is all about.

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JestersGhost
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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby JestersGhost » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:12 am

Broxen, we would never delete your post -- you are trying to help us. We get that.
*whisper* It was meridian that said that. /pedantry
1. There are two competing theories about Kickstarter. The official one, which Kickstarter promotes, is that the site is designed to enable a community to fund projects with a serious art component, that will not get made otherwise. The second one, which Kickstarter explicitly rejects, is that Kickstarters offer backers a chance to buy goods at a discount, as a sort of pre-pay KMart auction house. We are working on theory one. I know it catches me by surprise to hear that backers, who have thanking us for going without salaries for over a year to build something for our community, using our own personal savings, are now concerned about how many months of free game play they will receive as a major consideration for donating.
Yeah, this question caught me off-guard too. It's effectively a nicer version of, "Hey, where's my free stuff?".
Now sure, you get cool stuff for backing as a thank you, but I'm not sure why it should be the *reason* you back.
4. You've asked a lot of questions that we thought the community would already know by now. Let me try to address some of them; Veteran rewards, amount of dust, are not settled. We were trying to set in place some additional rewards for donating. Number of servers relates to number of subscribers -- it's unknowable right now, but we've said often that we want to minimize that number because it divides the playerbase into sub-communities. The city is most definitely not flat, the day/night cycle has been shown in numerous pictures taken from sunrise to sunset. The Torch video explicitly shows the City at night. We committed in the KS page (and elsewhere) to a team size of up to ten. We've discussed the excellent raiding options of the game, and said there will be player-designed missions -- we've even shown which building the player-designed missions will be launched from (next to City Hall). Ship of Heroes is a subscription game.
The point was that it's not the community that's the issue here - pretty sure the SoH community have pretty much all already pledged (or are budgeting to do so). The point is that those *outside* the community don't know these things. If the first thing you find about ship of heroes is the kickstarter, that needs to be giving you the low-down on these important questions.
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Consultant » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:41 am

OK, I definitely should have included my thanks to Meridian in that last post as well. Sorry about that.

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Flagwaver » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:37 am

For the record, I am not part of the Dev Team. I’m just one of those people who live in a state of “weaponized autism” and pick up on details quite easily. With that said, the information I am going to provide is what I got from the forums and various other sources (articles and the city walkthrough interview).

What does Veterancy really grant me?
What are Veteran Rewards and what kind of rewards should I expect?
I am assuming that it is the reward for time played/subscribed as it was in CoX. I would assume it would grant new costume options, badges, cosmetic power options, and the possibility of permanent temp-style powers.

What is dust? (I know... but this was the first question a friend asked me)
Dust is the in-game currency. It is the unobtanium dust released into the ship by the engines. It is the basis for the economy in-game.

Are reward tiers stacked? (Having funded several Kickstarters I figured they were, but sometimes they aren't, so..)
Yes. If you pay the $100 tier, you get the benefit of that tier and all those below it.

Do I get a copy of the game for backing? What if I only back $1? What will the game retail for after launch?
I believe backers get a copy of the game for the $10 tier and above, but I am not quite sure on this one.

Will there be a subscription to play? How much? Does my backing offer any subscription time?
Answered above. Yes. Don’t know yet. Yes, depending on the tier.

Fund what empire? Is this tongue in cheek? I don't understand.
I think it is tongue in cheek. The Empire would be the game.

How many servers?
As few as possible to keep people together.

How do you intend to complete an ambitious title with only $400k?
The money is more to polish what they already have and to purchase the services of Unreal 4 creators to build the other levels, enemies, and coding. If you know what you’re doing, it doesn’t cost that much to build and put the polish on a game.

Are you buying premade assets or creating everything from scratch?
A little of A and a little of B. They purchased premade assets and are creating things from scratch.

What level of polish should I expect from the end product?
Seeing as how what we have seen in the KS video amounts to an Alpha build and looks better than CoX, I’m going to say the level of polish on the Launch is going to be better.

The storyline is not incredibly engaging. Superheroes in space? Why? Why not another dimension or another planet?
We don’t know the actual storyline yet. However, what I have read is more that this is a colony ship and space is a rather dangerous place. Though, they said that other planets will be coming up and I can see a “portal corp” offshoot happening. The most recent poll asked about past Earth, which means we might be seeing some Guardian of Forever stuff happening.

Is Nagdelians really just Dang Aliens?
It’s punny. I don’t know if that’s what happened, but I can see it with how punny the Community was in CoX.

What kind of zones will exist? Do you have concept art for any of those zones?
They have given descriptions of some of the zones. There is Apotheosis City as the starter, a dense ultra-modern urban setting, industrial manufacturing (robot-heavy), a farming/hydroponics level (I’m envisioning Croatoa), an aquatic/island level, the highly dangerous harvesting level overrun with monsters, and that’s just on the ship. There will also be cyclic planetary landings and the possibility of time-travel for a mission or two (as long as it isn’t just Nazi Germany and 1920s New York, I’ll be happy).

What other mob types are there? What other mob groups?
There will be aliens, robots, cyborgs, street punks (powered and unpowered), and others. So far they’ve only shown two.

When creating the character in the video, she enters the world floating. Do we get to fly automatically? Do all heroes fly?
Fly, superspeed, and teleport will be available to all heroes. Entering in the hovering was a great effect, but I think it will only last for the span of entering the game after character creation.

When you created the character, she loads into the world and then you cut away to her again later. Is that entire game process cohesive and completed thus far?
I believe that she started at a higher level than normal (looking at the amount of powers in her bar). I would think that it would be similar to CoX except the tram is an elevator to other levels.

The city is flat, aren't there any simulated hills or terrain on this ship?
The main part of the city is mostly flat because of the urban planning. There were steps up to some buildings and there were a couple of depressions. Also, from the look of the “danger area” beyond the city, it looked like it had varied topography. I’m thinking other zones will have greater topography, especially the levels that have more of a rustic or forested environment.

Is there a day night cycle and what does that look like?
It looks like the holographic sun crosses the sky and then a holographic moon in a simulated day-night cycle.

Is there simulated weather?
I hope, but it might not be at launch. It would be interesting to get it in as it was one of the biggest requests on CoX.

How big can a group be and can we have leagues or raids?
10 members and yes.

In general more information about game mechanics would be great. Maybe a second video.
More will be revealed as time goes on, but it’s looking like the early alpha-level CoX stuff.

Are there pets or mounts, or vehicles?
Unknown. However, having a pet to follow you around would be kind of cool.

How does questing or missions work?
Unknown, but I am assuming that it will be similar to CoX.

How will mission architect work? Do you even have this?
They are planning to have it, if not at launch than within the first couple of updates.

What features will be available at launch and what is slated for release after?
Unknown. They haven’t even completed building the entire pre-alpha.
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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby kinglucus » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:51 am

Nicely done Flagwaver!

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Griffin » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:58 am

How big can a group be and can we have leagues or raids?
10 members and yes.
Team size is 10, but I ~think~ the question may have been:
"Is there a cap to number of heroes in a guild/sg?"

and possibly:
"Will there be inter-guild/SG raiding?"


-Griff

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Christopher Robin » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:09 am

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Christopher Robin » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:12 am

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Christopher Robin » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:16 am

Meridian said

................ by helpful people who want to see this game succeed.......................
Short answer: On it!

Longer answer: I was all over this right after the KS launch though it did take
me some time to scrutinize the KS rewards and formulate my thoughts.

I too was concerned that a post of this kind might get deleted so instead I
sent a PM to Consultant of about a dozen items pointing out typos, errors,
omissions, vagueness and things that could be said better.

Meridian said

............$150 - 1 month of Beta (?)
and 6 months retroactive playtime status for rewards and "small" amount of dust.
(Also, we are founding empires? Am I missing something?)..................

In summing up you actually kind of fixed
some of the things wrong with the $150 pledge. Here it is verbatim...

from Kickstarter

"Start with 6 moths of veterancy at launch, to bring you closer to all future veteran player
rewards, plus a small amount of the in-game currency, dust, help you fund your empire."

and this is an excerpt (summed up) from my response:

In that one sentence...
1. Missing the word "to" just before help
2. "months" not moths which are considerably less useful as rewards (too easily drawn to flames). ;)
3. Saying "you fund your" like that is redundant, "dust, to help fund your empire." is all you need.
4. Saying "to bring you closer to" is also redundant. Something like "which gets you all
future veteran rewards 6 months earlier as well" would work better.
.......... and some optional suggestions
5."veteran status" might be more professional than "veterancy" (which I am not sure is even a viable word).
6. Funding an empire??? One person ruling everything sounds like the goal of a villain (there will be no
playable villains?). How about "dust, to help fund your..." endeavors, dreams, goals, characters,
plans, ambitions... etc? .............A different word is needed.
---------------------------
......... skipping ahead a bit:
10. Also all reward tiers past the first one should have something to the effect of
"plus all previous rewards" in their text. Some of them imply it but none of them outright say it.

11. "2-month temporary team teleport power at launch" Further explanation needed...
teleport to base? teleport to the arch? to the current mission? A selectable destination?
Spell it out if you know what it will be. Also I would much rather it be like CoH had. i.e. teleport
me only, have a very long recharge, be interruptible and permanent. 2 months is too short.
-----------
You get the idea. Also not trying to be a jerk about it but I agree someone with more
KS experience should have read this over (as well as a good proof reader) before posting.

I also gave my thoughts on the relative value of the tiers when compared to their obvious
competition (of the 5 spiritual successors to CoH) City of Titans and their doubly successful KS.

Granted there are other factors and comparing the relative value of
future items is problematic at best but my overarching takeaway was...

What rewards will I still care about/be enjoying 6 months to a year after launch?
The comparison was not a favorable one for Ship of Heroes.
Last edited by Christopher Robin on Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby Codex » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:38 am

I think those of use who were hardcore CoH players look at the Kickstarter benefits and see them as something nice to reward us for help support the creation of the game.

What I am seeing from friends who are not hardcore players is what some have mentioned. They want more for their money. The input I am getting is that they expect more - they want more badges, temp powers, etc.

Personally, I don't know how this compares to other Kickstarter projects (other than the other CoH-like projects) but maybe SoH staff needs to re-evaluate the rewards to get the more casual CoH or MMORPG player to come on board.
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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby broxen » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:02 pm

Wow, these are some long posts, so I may take a couple of posts to explain where we are at. Broxen, we would never delete your post -- you are trying to help us. We get that.
Thank you for taking the time to review these posts. Its never fun or easy to be criticized publicly, even when the intention is constructive.

Not to speak for Meridian, but I think we both appreciate the active response by the dev team. That said, my post, and I believe Meridian's, were really pointing to the need for the community outside these forums to understand these questions, so posts here may not be as useful as posts on the Kickstarter clarifying and answering questions.
First a couple of things that were on our minds as we offered up this set or rewards:

1. There are two competing theories about Kickstarter. The official one, which Kickstarter promotes, is that the site is designed to enable a community to fund projects with a serious art component, that will not get made otherwise. The second one, which Kickstarter explicitly rejects, is that Kickstarters offer backers a chance to buy goods at a discount, as a sort of pre-pay KMart auction house. We are working on theory one. I know it catches me by surprise to hear that backers, who have thanking us for going without salaries for over a year to build something for our community, using our own personal savings, are now concerned about how many months of free game play they will receive as a major consideration for donating.
I'm concerned that you've missed my point here. I'm not worried about these things. I, having followed the community here for awhile, understand the basic pretense of the development that's happened thus far. The reality is that your audience outside of this site is responding with specific questions as to the value for their donation. I understand that contradicts the premise of the concept, and may even offend Kickstarters mission, but it's a valid question. Particularly when (and I agree that) the reward tiers are not clear. I'm bringing those concerns into this forum as a proxy, because I think they should be taken into consideration by the community, and when possible, addressed publicly (back out in that community)
2. You can look at the Kickstarters for City of Titans, Valiance Online, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, or Chronicles of Elyria. Surprisingly, the average donation is generally a bit above $100. Games in general average about $35. MMORPG averages are far more likely to be above $100 per donor. And so is the average for Ship of Heroes. This is normal.
This is all good and well, but many of those projects do not succeed in funding. Consider this: your forum has ~1,840 members. For sake of argument let's assume 100% are active members who donated $100. You're still less than halfway to your goal, and now trying to reach an audience that doesn't know anything about you, and doesn't understand why your game needs to be made.

The point is that these members are likely not all active and not all going to donate $100+, and the ones that will are the low hanging fruit of backers towards your funding goal.

My post was aimed at addressing common concerns for those higher fruit. There is an audience out there that may desire a new IP, a new superhero MMO, but may not know it, or may not know about Ship of Heroes. These people are posting on Reddit, posting on websites with coverage of the kickoff, with questions about the game and it's progress; questions about the lore and the aliens. Some of them haven't donated to a game before, and want to know how that process works, and what they receive in return.

As the people asking for that donation, the onus is on you to educate them, and demonstrate the value of a donation in a clear and concise manner.
3. Yes, the reward tiers stack. Yes, by donating you get the game for free. Yes, you get to play in the Beta free, and no we did not predict the monthly sub cost. We have however given a couple of points about the monthly sub cost: Since we're not looking to make this game a huge money-maker, monthly sub cost will be determined by actual costs when the game launches, with a discount for comitting to a longer period (12 months versus 1 month). I can tell you exactly what the monthly sub cost will be once I know how many players will be playing, what the cost of cloud computing will be two years from now, and how much customer service will cost, which depends on a bunch of things that are still unknowable. $8-15 per month is what we've been discussing on the forums. Would it really have been better if we said the game is going to cost $50 at launch but everyone gets between 1 and 6 months of free sub cost? All I can say about the desire for free months as opposed to a free game is that this was not clear to us.
I don't know the answer to these questions. But I do know that most people in the various MMO Discord chats I frequent haven't heard about your Kickstarter, and the ones that bother to look it up have these questions. I know that these questions are on Reddit, and in comments on websites covering your KS launch. Further friends and family that played CoH and loved that game dearly that, again, haven't heard about SoH and want to know, "What is a ship full of heroes? Why are they in space?" Finally, as many people on this forum have reminded us, there is a significant portion of your target audience that haven't donated to a Kickstarter before and want to know how it works.

The Kickstarter didn't seem to answer these questions, which is why people are asking them.
4. You've asked a lot of questions that we thought the community would already know by now.
This is my whole point. Maybe WE do know, but does everyone else out there looking for a new MMO who maybe catches an article on Massively OP or MMORPG.com? Probably not.

Further, there are posts and replies on these forums that show that the community here really didn't know all of these things either.

The Kickstarter didn't do a good job providing this information, or relevant links to it.
Let me try to address some of them; Veteran rewards, amount of dust, are not settled. We were trying to set in place some additional rewards for donating. Number of servers relates to number of subscribers -- it's unknowable right now, but we've said often that we want to minimize that number because it divides the playerbase into sub-communities. The city is most definitely not flat, the day/night cycle has been shown in numerous pictures taken from sunrise to sunset. The Torch video explicitly shows the City at night. We committed in the KS page (and elsewhere) to a team size of up to ten. We've discussed the excellent raiding options of the game, and said there will be player-designed missions -- we've even shown which building the player-designed missions will be launched from (next to City Hall). Ship of Heroes is a subscription game.
This would be best as a Kickstarter Update, or included in rewrites to the overview on the KS page.
Broxen, again thanks to you for posting so much feedback. No one sits down and writes something like you did without wanting the game to succeed. We hear that in your words. An update along the lines you suggested is a great idea.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and having this dialogue with the community. Truth is, I backed at the Deep Pockets level first thing yesterday morning. Ive been following the project, and I'm excited to play in a superhero world again. And, I'm out there trying to convince others to chip in; these concerns come through me from those skeptical third parties.
The fundamental value proposition of Ship of Heroes is not how many months of free play you receive for donating, but rather whether you want to have a game, any game, actually get built and get launched with the kind of positive and supportive community that COH had. Do we just need a game where we take a crude character model and run around the slums of 1970's Detroit, shooting gang members while dressed in Spandex? Is that enough? Or do we need powerful character customization, positive community, a focus on teaming, and a new setting that allows us to start again, and which can actually grow enormously over time? We're offering the latter. That's what this Kickstarter is all about.
This message is inspiring, but I'm afraid it's not the way your audience outside of this site sees it. They want to see the value in something more tangible, and they want to know precisely how fun the product will be, and when they can play.

I'd like to see this Kickstarter reach 30k backers and raise over two million bucks, but I don't see it getting there under the current strategy. Maybe that's not the goal anyway, but I write that so you know my heart is in the right place.
-Broxen

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broxen
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Re: What exactly do we get for a Kickstarter pledge and why is it so expensive?

Postby broxen » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:06 pm

What I am seeing from friends who are not hardcore players is what some have mentioned. They want more for their money. The input I am getting is that they expect more - they want more badges, temp powers, etc.
This is my whole point. I'm just not as capable of condensing it as you were Codex. Haha.
-Broxen


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