Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Wing Leader
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Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby Wing Leader » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:42 pm

The incredible potency of stacked buffs in CoX was a critical factor in making characters feel like superheroes, especially during team play. This was a bit of a source of controversy with players from other games who weren't used to this. Will buffs stack in SoH like they did in CoX?

Lazarus
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Re: Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby Lazarus » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:24 pm

I'd like that too. It made buffing a lot easier since you didn't ahve to worry about cancelling out someone else's buff (or having your own not take effect).

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Malice Johansson
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Re: Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby Malice Johansson » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:52 pm

As the career player of support ATs, I sure hope so.

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JestersGhost
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Re: Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby JestersGhost » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:52 am

If the maths is handled correctly, there's no reason why not.

*cough* viewtopic.php?t=43

Oh, how did that get there... *whistles innocently*
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

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Coyote
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Re: Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby Coyote » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:13 am

I support the idea of stacking buffs, but also the idea that CoH's style of linear buff stacking was problematic.

If you had three characters that buffed Defense by 25%, the first character would lower the chance of mobs from 50% to 25%, which mitigates 50% of the incoming damage. The second character then lowered the chance of mobs from 25% to 5% (the minimum, or floor), mitigating 80% of the incoming damage. The third character did not mitigate any damage.

Buffs like that should have a set value, such as "mitigate 50% of incoming damage", and this value should be relative to pre-buff and post-buff, not to a set value. This means that if you stack two of these powers, the first one mitigates 50%, then the second one mitigates 50% of the damage remaining after the first one (which in this case is 25% of base incoming damage). So after two such powers, you're taking 25% of the original damage, and adding a third power would mean that you're taking 12.5% of incoming damage.

This allows deeper stacking of powers, rather than ending up in a situation where a 2nd or a 3rd defense-buffer is useless on a team, and it also limits the strength of overstacking buffs (consider that in CoH two characters with 25% defense buffs, which each look like they should mitigate 50% of the damage, stack up to mitigate 90% of damage... while in this plan, they would only mitigate 75%).

JestersGhost is a comparable version, taking a similar concept and exploring the math that would be used to develop it. I think that some kind of exponential, or logarithmic, or some other "curved" function is necessary for stacking buffs, rather than CoH's linear functions.

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JestersGhost
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Re: Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby JestersGhost » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:02 pm

Glad you agree :D
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

LaughingAlex
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Re: Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby LaughingAlex » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:01 pm

I agree buffs/debuffs have to stack, and they have to be powerful enough and combat has to be such buffs/debuffs are more important than healing. In say, CO it's "buffs/debuffs < healing", since they fail to stack and on top of that aren't worth using. But in DCUO it also doesn't tend to stack buffs/debuffs, and since they are "equal" healing takes all priority to a point buffs just as well not really exist. But many games I hear make the mistake.

For buffs/debuffs/CC to matter, healing has to be the last resort, rather than the be-all-end-all. For that effect to apply, healing has to be weaker than buffs/debuffs/cc. It has to be the "Foo strategy", that is, powerful early on, but weak later on.

Otherwise, players just won't use buffs/debuffs/cc. And if they are equal well, I wouldn't want to see CO repeat itself here with buffs/debuffs/cc being nerfed so healing became the only form of support allowed some time before the WoW style raids which took CO's identity away forever.

Healing has to be optional, ultimately, and by itself really should not be as good as buffs by themselves, or debuffs by themselves, or cc by itself. Otherwise you'd just have everyone using only healing and nothing else for support. At best, by itself, I said earlier it has to be the "Foo strategy";

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Foo strategies aren't inherently bad, but become bad when they last to long. In a way, I'd dare say healing in CoH may have even lasted a little "to" long. Even though empathy in CoX became more buff oriented later in the game, people still thought and assumed they were awesome with it cause they healed alot more later. Even though empathy was a power-house when you used fortitude on the right people, fortitude often fell to neglect in favor of more healing as many players were conditioned by the game into just trying to heal more for a good 20 levels, even though at 25+ healing by itself became very weak.

Buffs/debuffs/CC have to be better than healing, and healing has to be a last resort. Otherwise the first three will get ignored.

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Flagwaver
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Re: Will buffs stack like in CoX?

Postby Flagwaver » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:48 pm

I can see the Tanks, Devastators, and Brawlers socking in PvP away while the Supporters are buffing, debuffing, countering debuffs, and healing in their own kind of duel.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

A bullet may have a name on it, but 20 pounds of C4 is more of a "to whom it may concern."


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