Controllers

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Red5
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Re: Controllers

Postby Red5 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:44 am

personally I think that pets should be a totally separate class. Controllers are for holds, slows, deflects, mezz's etc, pets are masterminds. meh.
Agreed. I can't blame CoH for tossing in pets to the trollers because Mastermind wasn't even pie in the sky concept. But imho SoH should/could just have trollers more traditional lock down powers, knowing there will be Masterminds down the road.

But that gets me thinking on Ship of Villains...will they have Masterminds too or will they have what Masterminds where to Controllers in CoH
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Re: Controllers

Postby GladDog » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:52 am

Villains will have the exact same ATs as heroes when Villains/ PvP release, which solves TONS of balancing issues before they even have a chance to raise their ugly heads.
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Red5
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Re: Controllers

Postby Red5 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:02 am

Villains will have the exact same ATs as heroes when Villains/ PvP release, which solves TONS of balancing issues before they even have a chance to raise their ugly heads.
I can get behind that!

-cheers
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Re: Controllers

Postby Golden Ace » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:14 am

Villains will have the exact same ATs as heroes when Villains/ PvP release, which solves TONS of balancing issues before they even have a chance to raise their ugly heads.
I can get behind that!

-cheers
Me too. I do want another ship for Villains though.

heck you can make the ships identical with only minor changes. and if need be the ships can meet on certain planets. via dedicated teleport
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Red5
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Re: Controllers

Postby Red5 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:46 am


Me too. I do want another ship for Villains though.

heck you can make the ships identical with only minor changes. and if need be the ships can meet on certain planets. via dedicated teleport
I could get behind that concept....secretly was hoping for Justice Friends Gulag* scenario...where the Villains overtake one of the F.H.S. Ships


*=even as a young lad watching a cartoon... I found it novel that the bad guys not only broke out of their prison but then turned it into base of operations and started working together towards a common goal rather than being individuals. It was sinister and worthy threat to my heroes.
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JoCalibur
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Re: Controllers

Postby JoCalibur » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:39 am

A lot of my SG mates did not care for Mind Controllers, because of not having pets. In fact, none of my SG mates played a Mind controller beyond 33. However, since SoH controllers likely won't have pets until after Commanders are released (probably 2nd major patch after release or about 6-8 months), Mind Controllers would be the template to work from, at least at first. I still think that the best way to make controllers is to make their mez powers better than CoH, give them some perfunctory ranged attacks in their primary, and not run pets at all, or at least drastically shorten their timer so they only exist for a minute or so.

Why? Because Controllers were too damn weak early, and too damn strong later. Everything was about the pets, and IMO that is not what should define them. They should be defined by their ability to control the battlefield, not by how their pets can wipe the battlefield clean while the controller has a cup of tea.

In almost every other game with a controller type AT, they have some ranged ability. CoH Controllers only had significant damage capability from temp powers and pets. I think this is one area where SoH can set itself apart from CoH with a better AT.

I level capped an Ice/Emp Controller and was working on a Fire/Therm when the game closed. Got that one to 41... If the game had continued I was very interested in making a Dark/Dark Controller. Even though I prefer melee based characters in just about every mmorpg I have ever played, I was rather fascinated by the way Controllers played.
I agree with GladDog. Controllers should not be defined by their pets. In CoH the Controllers had pets before Masterminds existed. I am of the mindset that Controllers should not get a pet.

Controllers will need some way to do enough damage to solo. I like the ideas of including a few single target damage attacks within the control powerset. Improving the damage on single target controls is another option. On my Fortunata I slotted Dominate for damage instead of hold duration. I think the Fortunata single target hold did considerably more damage than the Controller and Dominator single target hold.

Do we know that Controllers will be a Control/Support archetype? I always preferred playing on Dominators. If the SoH Controllers get a few damage powers in their primary powerset though, I will be much more interested in playing as a Control/Support Controller. If a hero can do sophisticated things like caging enemies with elemental powers, why would they not be capable of blasting enemies with those same elemental powers?

"Hey Sonic Corona! Can you blast that baddie with fire?"
"Nope, I can only materialize rings of fire around his feet, and scream at him to lower his resistance. I am not capable of shooting fire at him."

I might have enjoyed Controllers more if I played a more effective combo than Fire/Sonic. I was always hurting for endurance. Too many toggles.

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Re: Controllers

Postby Codex » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:01 pm

Controllers were a pain to level but the payoff was great. I had a ill/rad controller that died a million deaths but once it got its pets, it was God mode. Soloing AVs was so much fun.

The other God mode character I had was my spines/regen scrapper. Once I got IH (when it was a toggle), it was almost impossible to die unless I did something really stupid.

This is what made CoH fun - the journey was hard but the payoff was great. I really felt like a superhero.
aka Backer 68

AxerJ
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Re: Controllers

Postby AxerJ » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:42 am

A poignant.. point, Codex! And one I think worth remembering by Heroic Games.

Consultant
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Re: Controllers

Postby Consultant » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:24 am

Indeed.

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A1fighter
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Re: Controllers

Postby A1fighter » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:35 pm

personally I think that pets should be a totally separate class. Controllers are for holds, slows, deflects, mezz's etc, pets are masterminds. meh.
Agreed. I can't blame CoH for tossing in pets to the trollers because Mastermind wasn't even pie in the sky concept. But imho SoH should/could just have trollers more traditional lock down powers, knowing there will be Masterminds down the road.

But that gets me thinking on Ship of Villains...will they have Masterminds too or will they have what Masterminds where to Controllers in CoH
Agree here.

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Re: Controllers

Postby Mons » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:19 pm

How about a choice of either a utility-type power, or a light/medium damage power at certain levels? Perhaps either/or could also increase the existing magnitude of current controls on the target? Or increase damage of controls as the total magnitude is increased from the same character of origin? Mag/duration/bonus damage/# of targets effected/recharge could also be increased or decreased based upon team size?

Just spitballing here...

magicjtv
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Re: Controllers

Postby magicjtv » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:06 pm

Mind and (to a lesser extent) Gravity controllers played fine pre-32. The reason was they got controls that could do decent damage and they got them early. Mind, in particular, had no slow DoT powers, damage was all front loaded. Mesmerize, Levitate, and Dominate were the first 3 powers in Mind and together they were a legitimate attack chain.

Do that and you wont need a gun or anything else.

magicjtv
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Re: Controllers

Postby magicjtv » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:33 pm

I am of the mindset that Controllers should not get a pet.
I really think Controllers need pets, especially if this game is marketing to CoH players.

Most controller pets were not overpowered. Jack Frost, Stoney, Singy, and Venus Fly Trap were useful, but by no means God mode. The issues came from having unkillable perma Phantom Army in Ill/Rad, and the Fire Imps paired with Kin or (to a lesser extent) Rad. Avoid those two mistakes and the problems with CoH pets go away.

No unkillable perma pets, no zerging with multiple high damage pets that are also highly buffed.

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Re: Controllers

Postby Blaze Rocker » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:10 pm

magicjtv
I really think Controllers need pets, especially if this game is marketing to CoH players.
Well that depends on the sets themselves. Since I started building power sets for that farce of a project 'Heroes and Villains' I got a better understanding of what certain sets did well and how to make powers for them. Certain sets, where more than one pet power existed or could be effectively given if so desired, really could have been made into Mastermind/Commander sets instead of controller sets. Illusion Control was a prime example. Although they were at the end of the selection the set had three pet powers. Even though the set kicked some major butt once you finally got to those pets the set really should have been reworked into a MM set, especially when you consider that the first four powers in the set were incredibly close to a Mind Controller's abilities and weren't exclusively illusions

To sum things up, I believe it comes down to the number of proposed pets for a set that should determine what archetype that set belongs to. One pet for a controller is fine but once you put a second in there you should really consider if it should be a controller or a commander set, and if you want three pets in there then it definitely should be a commander set and not a controller set.
Time to let Ol' Painless out of the bag.

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GladDog
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Re: Controllers

Postby GladDog » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:33 pm

I am of the mindset that Controllers should not get a pet.
I really think Controllers need pets, especially if this game is marketing to CoH players.

Most controller pets were not overpowered. Jack Frost, Stoney, Singy, and Venus Fly Trap were useful, but by no means God mode. The issues came from having unkillable perma Phantom Army in Ill/Rad, and the Fire Imps paired with Kin or (to a lesser extent) Rad. Avoid those two mistakes and the problems with CoH pets go away.

No unkillable perma pets, no zerging with multiple high damage pets that are also highly buffed.
Combat pets probably won't be ready for game release. Since the dev team is working hard to have Controllers in the game at game release, pets may not be in the sets, or if they are in the sets, they may not be in the game for 6-9 months after release.

I am also of the mind set that pets are not required to have a good controller experience. I think a Controller should control, and like most mez classes in most games, they should get some form of ranged damage.
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