Shape-shifting?

Vanishingpointe
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Shape-shifting?

Postby Vanishingpointe » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am

I am not sure if the premise is lore friendly, and I realize it deviates from the inspiration of CoX , but has any discussion occurred around "shapeshifting" powersets?

The premise of shapeshifting as a developed powerset along side the standards of tank, blast, melee, defense, and control, would offer some interesting gameplay options and distinguish SoH as more than a new iteration of the CoX standard.

I can easily envision a number of "shapeshift" sets:
A power-boosting, but temporary, set a la The Incredible Hulk (or hundreds of anime magic-x characters)
A weapons and shield deploying mecha-themed set, complete with travel-power boosting transformation
A magical, beast-shape polymorphing set, like a traditional DnD druid
A mutating, body modification set, with neat control and self buffs, in the style of T1000 or many thousands of more grotesque mutant characters
Maybe even a infiltrator/mimic set that allows copying of mobs' abilities, and causes confusion, maybe paired with a "backstab" surprise ability.

I could do this all day, but I think my point is made. Has there been any consideration of shapeshifting as a new possibility?

Consultant
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Consultant » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:21 pm

This would be a really complex thing to try to do, from a technical perspective. Games have characters, characters have skeletons and appearances. Shape shifting is not on the table for us, any time soon.

On the other hand, you just never know when the Epic guys will deliver a new engine mod that throws open a new capability. So it's a "never say never" situation.

But it is not in the development pipeline at the moment.

Vanishingpointe
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Vanishingpointe » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:41 pm

This would be a really complex thing to try to do, from a technical perspective. Games have characters, characters have skeletons and appearances. Shape shifting is not on the table for us, any time soon.

On the other hand, you just never know when the Epic guys will deliver a new engine mod that throws open a new capability. So it's a "never say never" situation.

But it is not in the development pipeline at the moment.
I figured that it would require some technical wizardry. I was mostly dreaming out loud, but the team has proven to be damned competent, so you never know.

MadAddict
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby MadAddict » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:44 pm

That would be very cool but the transformation of the model is almost impossible as of now but it's a really great idea!

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Solarverse
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Solarverse » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:53 pm

Although I never play shape shifting in MMO, I do like them. Besides, I could never have an issue with anything that makes a game better for everyone. :) Nice question!

Consultant
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Consultant » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:50 am

It's sort of funny, because I've had a crazy thought about how this might be done. But it would be really complicated, and we are not working on it -- we need to get the core game launched. Still, I'm keeping a mental note for the future.

AxerJ
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby AxerJ » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:09 pm

It's sort of funny, because I've had a crazy thought about how this might be done. But it would be really complicated, and we are not working on it -- we need to get the core game launched. Still, I'm keeping a mental note for the future.
Yee haw!

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JestersGhost
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby JestersGhost » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:27 pm

In case it helps, I know an old UT mod that was basically standard team deathmatch with transformers - robot forms with guns and vehicle forms with various special abilities.

They did the shape-shifting by having two models for each character - one for robot form, one for vehicle form, and the transform animation was split in half. The first half was the robot to a half-way point, then the second was from an identical (model-wise) half-way point (but completely different skeleton) to vehicle. And they'd just switch skeletons at the halfway point and carry on with the second animation.

Obviously way harder to do with completely customisable character designs, but possibly if the "mid-point" could be a fade to a colourless approximate humanoid, then you just need an animation from that to each end point with whatever skeleton.

I say "just" like that's not still a ridiculous amount of work for a single powerset, but, y'know, it's all relative :)

EDIT: It's still on moddb :P http://www.moddb.com/mods/counter-organic-revolution
[ quantum sufficit / casual-tempest.net / My Combat Mechanics Thread ]

Vanishingpointe
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Vanishingpointe » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:55 pm

I'm not a pro animator, but I would guess that an easy work around for a model or skeleton swap would be a particle effect cloud. Cheap, and sometimes appropriate, but effective.

If working with a micro transformation, a la body weaponry, I'm not even sure a full skeleton swap would be needed. A temporary effect or a costume piece swap, let's say an arm spike, could simply involve a costume piece that covers the character 's hand texture, like a held item but that has the hand clipping through the spike texture.

Then again, I'm not sure what all this model swapping and addition would do to performance, let alone the coding involved.

Consultant
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Consultant » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:25 am

Yes, that's a big part of the challenge. We read about shape-shifting and we think "that would be cool." But I need to be the bad guy and keep the team on target, and on scope. Shape-shifting is a big deal. Not a small effort at all. We need to stay on target (Red One, do you hear me? -- stay on target). So if someone asks for a particular costume look, or a powerset with a particular type of FX, we can eventually build something like that because we are building costumes and powersets anyway. But actual shape-shifting is likely an engine mod. Back in engineering school they used to say "that is not a trivial effort," for such things.

Now a particle effect? Maybe. But still, we need to stay within our planned scope and deliver the game we've described, so any shape shifting is going to be much later, assuming we can do it.

Also, some part of me thinks that the many, many other teams using UE 4 for all kinds of games are coming up with cool tricks and improvements all of the time. Maybe if another team figures it out, it might suddenly become much easier. We are fast followers in terms of UE 4 improvements. So that is a real option for us.

Vanishingpointe
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Vanishingpointe » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:08 pm

I used "easy" in the most broadly applicable connotation :).

I reckon that implementing something like this is on the back burner on a stove in a backroom two blocks over, but hearing it is even up for consideration at all gets me a bit excited. I honestly can't wait to see how you and the team make the entire concept of the super hero game your own.

Hopefully you'll pick up all sorts of neat tricks from other teams out there.

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A1fighter
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby A1fighter » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:12 pm

CoX had costume change emotes.

Not game changing or ability altering by any strecth, but you could morph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKvRJHUHVqE

That Hulk one is gold haha. This is an old dated game, but they nailed morphing. Not what the OP asked for, but still something I guess.

Maybe have a power set build associated with the costume change or something like that. In CO, you could have builds designated to a particular costume; implement that, with CoX costume change animations.

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Eulb
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Eulb » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:50 pm

I don't want a shape-shifting ability ... ill be happy with my look after I create it in the CCT .

now a " Shape changing "ability would be acceptable ... so my toon can look like a person and push a button on my utility belt and change into a robot thats ok with me ...
Let the bright stars ahead guide your journey

Vanishingpointe
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Vanishingpointe » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:04 am

I don't want a shape-shifting ability ... ill be happy with my look after I create it in the CCT .

now a " Shape changing "ability would be acceptable ... so my toon can look like a person and push a button on my utility belt and change into a robot thats ok with me ...
Well, of course you would still want to show off your rad costume! I am sure the team remembers and loves those costume change emotes of old, and may even get time to add them once the ball starts rolling in earnest. For my part, I was daydreaming shape-shifting as a powerset, probably with visual effects like earth armor or the shield sets. It would be nifty if some of the powers that had full-skin changes could have the alternate appearance designed by the player (not everybody wants to play as green Hulk, some folks want to be Red Hulk or Bane), but that is a technical issue I am not educated enough to theorize about (but I bet it is tricky).

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Eulb
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Re: Shape-shifting?

Postby Eulb » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:58 pm

Vanishingpointe you said ...

... I was daydreaming shape-shifting as a powerset, probably with visual effects like earth armor or the shield sets...
I am concerned for you that you want a shape-shifting power-set soooo bad .... which would really be awe-sum and cool to look at ... But at start or launch which happens in about 12 months that is to launch ... then another span of time for the DEV's to program that and.... well ...
i'm thinking that 2 maybe 3 years away from now ... and my concern for you you'll get really discouraged ...

Dream the future and enjoy the present :P
Let the bright stars ahead guide your journey


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