Scaling

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pearbear
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Scaling

Postby pearbear » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:50 pm

One concept City of Heroes introduced which was WAY ahead of its time was moving away from fixed cap systems and towards scaling: whether it was scaling down with the sidekick system or allowing missions to be scaled up on difficulty. This concept was introduced 2 years ago in WoW and now outdoor mobs scale to your level (up to a zone cap) and more importantly dungeons and rewards from dungeons scale as part of the mythic + system. I think CoH focusing on introducing raids near the end instead of making their revolutionary scaling system more robust and rewarding as end game content was a huge mistake and a missed opportunity. There is now a hugely successful small team end game progression path in WoW as an alternative to larger, time consuming raiding.

My questions for the developers are: is the team aware of how important scaling systems are these days for both keeping content relevant and rewarding, and are you actually working on such systems? Thanks!

Thanks!

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Golden Ace
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Re: Scaling

Postby Golden Ace » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:14 pm

Good question.

As of January the answer to scaling is ‘No, scaling is not in effect yet. We do however know how important it is and plan to have a robust system in place.’

Below is a bastardization of something consultant said in January.

Scaling should provide a similar level of challenge to a basic level 15 and a basic level 40, with the same archetype and powers. We would like to get this coded, but it is not coded yet. We do intend to do it though.
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Odee
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Re: Scaling

Postby Odee » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:16 pm

Good question.

As of January the answer to scaling is ‘No, scaling is not in effect yet. We do however know how important it is and plan to have a robust system in place.’

Below is a bastardization of something consultant said in January.

Scaling should provide a similar level of challenge to a basic level 15 and a basic level 40, with the same archetype and powers. We would like to get this coded, but it is not coded yet. We do intend to do it though.
Operative word being Yet. w00t! :D :lol:

Makes me wonder, if somebody made a game that was totally without leveling the character, but had Scaling for weapons, powers and armor, or just scaling for the AI in how the NPC approached combat, would it be successful, or flop on the drawing board?
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Consultant
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Re: Scaling

Postby Consultant » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:59 am

Sometimes we struggle a little biut with how to convey our progress, which is quite good this year.

We do want to have scaling. Side-kicking is one of the things that helps make an MMO a great, positive place, and this is at the core of our mission. If you have been playing for a while and your friend joins the game, of course you want to take your level 22 character and run missions with his new level 3 character.

We have to enable this to happen.

This sort of feature needs (in our view) to be added closer to launch, because it involves a lot of other systems. For example, when you side-kick down, the game needs to "know" which of the powers you have at level 22 is still available at level 4. The code needs to apply some or all, or none of your set bonuses. It needs to adjust your characters stats like hit points and accuracy, and perhaps remove a travel power. The effect that infusions and buffs have on your character might be different at level 4 than at level 22. But all of this needs to be temporary.

So sidekicking as a feature gets built on top of everything else, after those systems are in place.

Does that make sense?

The good news is thart we are far along with all of these other features. You've seen many of them in our videos.

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Odee
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Re: Scaling

Postby Odee » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Absolutely makes 100% sense, Consultant! Thanks for the clarification, and information.

I agree too, and it seems to be with more frequency, people have trouble understanding what somebody has written, or mistakes the original intent/meaning of a post. I blame this on the written word, versus face-to-face communication, where a person can gather more intent from body language, voice inflection, and so on.

:D :D :D
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olepi
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Re: Scaling

Postby olepi » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:44 pm

Elder Scrolls Online (ESO) did something similar. Now all NPC's are scaled to your level, no matter where you are.

If you team up with a character at a different level, the NPC essentially looks different to the two different players. A lvl 15 and lvl 40 fight the same mob, and the mob reacts to each player at the player's level.

And unlike other MMO's there are no level-specific zones anymore. You can go anywhere and all the NPC's are the same. Not everybody likes that, since you can't seek out mobs higher than you are.

Ryzom does it completely differently. You aren't a level at all, really. You have a level for healing, a different level for melee, a level for range, a level for magic, etc. You can be a lvl 50, 100, and 150 at the same time and team up with others of the same level. You could be a lvl 50 healer, and team up with other lvl 50's. Or be a lvl 150 fighter, and team up with other 150's.
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Golden Ace
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Re: Scaling

Postby Golden Ace » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:30 pm

Personally I don’t want everything scalable. I would like invasion events to be scalable so that everyone can join in the fun but normal street thugs, missions and stuff should have levels.
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Ridgeman
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Re: Scaling

Postby Ridgeman » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:03 pm

Personally I don’t want everything scalable. I would like invasion events to be scalable so that everyone can join in the fun but normal street thugs, missions and stuff should have levels.
/agree. The first time I heard of sidekicking, my mind was blown. Later on, we had event mobs that scaled and I was amazed again. However, it does get irritating having to worry about mob aggro everywhere you go - even low level zones - because mobs come after you, and all you want to do is get to your "mission in Atlas park, but you've got these Skulls coming after you" so you can't quickly get in and out. Or even just park your high level toon in a low level zone and not worry about getting ganked by a mob with a baseball bat while you hit the head.


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