Mez mechanics

Parabola
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Location: Body - GB; Soul - Union

Mez mechanics

Postby Parabola » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:42 am

Have any details been released about the mez mechanics SoH will use? It's an area I always thought CoH had room to improve on.

Consultant
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:48 pm

Re: Mez mechanics

Postby Consultant » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:10 pm

On November 21st, 2017 we published a short newsletter on what we plan to include at launch, and which items will come later. You can still see it on the laterst news section of this website.

But that is kind of brief and it is more of a "what" we're doing and not "how" we're doing it.

Did you want to toss out some specific questions?

Suggestions for improvements, either to our mez plan or to the COH system, are welcome too.

Parabola
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Re: Mez mechanics

Postby Parabola » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:06 pm

I've had a look at that announcement, the associated thread and had a good read of other threads on this topic. I see many of my queries and thoughts have already been raised. I feel like I've arrived late to a meeting and am trying to work out what has already been covered!

As has been discussed elsewhere i think the CoH mez system was a little too binary. The use of magnitudes and the 'hardness' of many of the control effects seemed to me to create a system that was a little difficult to balance.

I've given quite a bit of thought to what i would do differently if it were up to me and in all honesty i don't envy you guys the task. I've got the outline of an alternative system but when i step back from it it's probably overcomplicated, certainly incomplete and I'm not even sure it fixes the areas i want to fix!

There is one part of it i really like though. When the blaster inherent (defiance?) was changed to allow the use of tier one and two powers through any mez effects i thought it was enormously clunky but i could see where they were going. I would love to see a more elegant version of the same sort of idea available to all characters. This is to make being mezzed less of an all or nothing experience and not remove all player agency (which no one ever likes).

Mechanically i don't exactly know how best to work it but I'm looking for the feeling of struggling against the mez, trying to force out powers to either kill the enemy responsible or fire off that desperately needed heal etc. One way of doing it would be to allow click powers to be fired during mez effects but multiply the cast times, endurance costs and whatever else by a factor perhaps related to the tier of the power to simulate the fight against the mez effect.

It looked really odd in CoH firing powers off while held etc. It would look so much better if there was an animation for breaking out of the mez that fired just prior to the normal power animation (at the end of the extended wind up period) with the mez taking hold again immediately after the power fires.

This system gives the player choices to make if they are mezzed and a break free or a clear mind isn't to hand. They can wait it out and emerge with powers recharged and endurance untouched but run the risk of further mez, death or team suffering without their input. Or they can be heroic and burn their endurance fighting through the mez, emerging exhausted and with powers on long cooldowns but having continued to contribute to the fight. Choices are always good!

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Coyote
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Re: Mez mechanics

Postby Coyote » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:40 am

One idea I had for CoH mezzing that was never implemented, was to pair mezzing with appropriate debuffing. In most cases, the debuffing wouldn't matter since the mez effect would make irrelevant, but if the mez landed but did not have an effect, then the debuffing would matter. This changed mez powers from FULL or NO effect to having partial effect, which would then have given Controllers a direct use against AVs without having to use those clunky vulnerable-periods denoted by the triangles.

As I recall, the mezzes and debuffs were:
Immobilize --> Slow, Defense
Sleep --> Damage, Defense
Hold --> Rechage, Accuracy, Damage, Specials debuff. Specials being the power effects affected by Boost Power
Stun --> Accuracy, Recharge
Confuse --> Accuracy, Defense
Fear --> Accuracy, Damage

Yes, the Defense debuffs would have been an effective boost to the powers since lowering a mob's defense or resistance does matter even when it's mezzed... but it would have made Sleep and Confuse powers more useful in teaming, which at the time seemed worthwhile.

Consultant
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Re: Mez mechanics

Postby Consultant » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:54 am

These are some good ideas. Thankks for contributing them into the game.

We're not sure what we can implement before the end of the year, but we're certainly thinking about how to make the combat truly compelling. Giving characters the ability to struggle against the mez is a cool idea.

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gemini
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Re: Mez mechanics

Postby gemini » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:13 pm

One idea I had for CoH mezzing that was never implemented, was to pair mezzing with appropriate debuffing. In most cases, the debuffing wouldn't matter since the mez effect would make irrelevant, but if the mez landed but did not have an effect, then the debuffing would matter. This changed mez powers from FULL or NO effect to having partial effect, which would then have given Controllers a direct use against AVs without having to use those clunky vulnerable-periods denoted by the triangles.

As I recall, the mezzes and debuffs were:
Immobilize --> Slow, Defense
Sleep --> Damage, Defense
Hold --> Rechage, Accuracy, Damage, Specials debuff. Specials being the power effects affected by Boost Power
Stun --> Accuracy, Recharge
Confuse --> Accuracy, Defense
Fear --> Accuracy, Damage

Yes, the Defense debuffs would have been an effective boost to the powers since lowering a mob's defense or resistance does matter even when it's mezzed... but it would have made Sleep and Confuse powers more useful in teaming, which at the time seemed worthwhile.
As a controller main, I remember the pain of "ok nothing nothing nothing nothing - fully held, go wild" while trying to stack magnitudes up. Some kind of partial effects scale might be nice


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