A formal request to exclude PvP

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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Avatar PDM » Wed May 02, 2018 9:39 am

My suggestion would be if PVP requires rebalancing, make it completely independent of the PVE balancing. Could use flags to determine what is or isn't a player and have any variables needed to balance PVP only affect interactions with the flagged opponents.
could the flag look like a target ;)?
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Golden Ace » Wed May 02, 2018 11:01 am

one thing I never liked in WoW is that sometimes I would fly around and explore and get to close to an enemy city and get flagged for PvP. I hated that.
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Blaze Rocker » Wed May 02, 2018 1:52 pm

If there are going to be designated areas for PvP that don't require loading time I would like to suggest boundary markers to be highly visible so that there is no doubt where the player-character is. That should reduce bitching and moaning on the future game forum.
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby GladDog » Wed May 02, 2018 2:00 pm

SoH PvP is going to be arenas and zones, and nothing else. MAYBE if demand is high they may do other things, but the way it is planned you will clearly know when you are entering a PvP area. And no fiddling around; if you don't want to PvP you won't ever be forced to do so.
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Warhead » Wed May 02, 2018 3:52 pm

Not really much of a PVP player myself. What I could get into would be something like PVP missions where a villein (once the option comes out) gets a heist mission like rob a bank or something and a hero gets to go in to try to stop it.

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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby GladDog » Wed May 02, 2018 6:56 pm

Not really much of a PVP player myself. What I could get into would be something like PVP missions where a villein (once the option comes out) gets a heist mission like rob a bank or something and a hero gets to go in to try to stop it.
That sounds like a good arena mission! I'm game - 5v5, villains are robbing the jewel store, and the heroes are trying to stop them!
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby VulcanXtian » Tue May 08, 2018 2:03 am

I love PvP - the game must have it! PvP allows devs to realize imbalances in powersets, it is not logical to think a game shouldn't have PvP because it brought about changes you didn't like in CoH. PvP is optional anyways, play it if you want, and don't if you don't like it.

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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby lunawisp » Tue May 08, 2018 5:11 am

I love PvP - the game must have it! PvP allows devs to realize imbalances in powersets, it is not logical to think a game shouldn't have PvP because it brought about changes you didn't like in CoH. PvP is optional anyways, play it if you want, and don't if you don't like it.
I don't PvP but I have no issue with it being ingame as long as the boundaries are clearly defined and it stays optional. There are a lot of games these days using a mandatory PvP endgame to avoid having to constantly create PvE content. It's understandable for free to play games I suppose but it does result in a lot of people simply avoiding them.
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Avatar PDM » Tue May 08, 2018 5:52 am

I love PvP - the game must have it! PvP allows devs to realize imbalances in powersets, it is not logical to think a game shouldn't have PvP because it brought about changes you didn't like in CoH. PvP is optional anyways, play it if you want, and don't if you don't like it.
Just so, that you don´t get me wrong I don´t write that because I think different, I write that, because I think that you put a point on the table, which others may have and which I think is not right.
Stating Your opinion is absolutely OK, that is what this topic is there for. So, that everyone can state if he/she likes it or not. But I really have to say that it is absolutely logical to write that one doesn´t like it because it is responsible for changes one doesn´t like. Because why else should somebody write at all if not for that. The principle of Online Gaming is Interaction with other human beings. If somebody wants that to be an Ego Shooter to test abilities in real life contest thats fine and as long as PvP is isolated from the rest I don´t care. But it is still a valid point, saying that PvP calls for a certain type of player. If one does not like that kind of player it is only logical, saying that one doesn´t want PvP to be around.
To this game I believe the problem, why this topic came up at all is, because there is only one Server and a certain space in which people want to coop and otherwise want to be left alone. If there would be a second PvP server everyone would be happy I am sure of that.
To the other part of your statement - I don´t really believe in the theory of imbalance correction. You know, as I see it, the question of powers being imbalanced or not is irrelevant in this kind of game. You know, you want to be a super hero - the fighting through crowds and having fun with huge outbursts of power are part of the concept for certain kind of heroes! It only is relevant if you have PvP! If you want to play together you won´t choose the Blaster for example, because he is so much more powerful, you will choose him if you like that kind of gaming and you will not take him no matter what if you are a different kind of gamer. And if you play together it also won´t always answer any trouble being a troop of blasters (to stay with the example) because with powers there always are weaknesses too, which are in the concept already and don´t have to be checked in PvP. Also I doubt that PvP is the answer to balance questions because what if the balancing destroys the personal feeling which goes with certain power sets (I mean, why should a healer be as effective in direct combat as a Scrapper?). While stating that I will go a bit further - if powers are (as I hope and believe heard here) are flexible in choosing, than balancing will be the responsibility of the player anyway, because then the individualisation makes balancing irrelevant and impossible anyway.
No I don´t believe in the solution of PvP as a test for proper programming (so much for my opinion)
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby GladDog » Tue May 08, 2018 9:10 am

Please stay civil gang! I know that this is a polarizing issue in any game, but respect other people's opinions, as long as they are not abusive.

PvP won't be introduced until after villains enter the game. This will probably be around 2 years after release, which is tentatively scheduled for the end of 2019. This means Villains and PvP won't be in until 2021 or later. When they introduce PvP, there will be no dueling. Period. Maybe in the far future they may try this, but it won't be for a while. There will be arena PvP, and there will be zone PvP.

Zone PvP will be Warburg type. Arena type is what will interest me, though. This will allow players to set the parameters for a match. 5v5 zero G and unlimited energy? Sounds awesome for a bunch of Devastators. Flying disabled and 25% melee damage bonus? Count me in! There should be TONS of ways to customize a match to make it challenging and fun.
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby GladDog » Tue May 08, 2018 9:37 am

I am going to add further thoughts on this. The arena PvP is what sounds like the most fun to me. I would venture to guess that 80+% of my PvP time will be in arenas. Considering that in a 30-40 hour play week about 2-4 hours would be in PvP, there is a much bigger payoff for me in Arenas.

Arena PvP could use existing maps. Zone PvP would require an entire zone, about 1.25 miles (about 2km) in diameter. Arena PvP could have a player cap, significantly lowering the data footprint compared to a multi-shard zone. This could be important since player vs player is going to require more bandwidth, since players are not predictable.
Arena PvP could have ladders, achievements, all kinds of stuff. Zone PvP would not be as player friendly with achievements, meaning it would rapidly fill with the closest thing to Stalkers that can be made. Because of this the only achievement that would work in a zone is raw PvP score.
Arenas will be customizable, meaning you can greatly improve your fun in a match by tailoring it to the groups looking to play.

Therefore, I really hope that they introduce arenas first and develop them into a fun thing before they tackle zones. It may be that arenas are all that is needed to scratch the PvP itch for most of the target players.
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Avatar PDM » Tue May 08, 2018 10:07 am

I am going to add further thoughts on this. The arena PvP is what sounds like the most fun to me. I would venture to guess that 80+% of my PvP time will be in arenas. Considering that in a 30-40 hour play week about 2-4 hours would be in PvP, there is a much bigger payoff for me in Arenas.

Arena PvP could use existing maps. Zone PvP would require an entire zone, about 1.25 miles (about 2km) in diameter. Arena PvP could have a player cap, significantly lowering the data footprint compared to a multi-shard zone. This could be important since player vs player is going to require more bandwidth, since players are not predictable.
Arena PvP could have ladders, achievements, all kinds of stuff. Zone PvP would not be as player friendly with achievements, meaning it would rapidly fill with the closest thing to Stalkers that can be made. Because of this the only achievement that would work in a zone is raw PvP score.
Arenas will be customizable, meaning you can greatly improve your fun in a match by tailoring it to the groups looking to play.

Therefore, I really hope that they introduce arenas first and develop them into a fun thing before they tackle zones. It may be that arenas are all that is needed to scratch the PvP itch for most of the target players.
when you are talking about arena - you think about it like a holo deck (to speak in Star Trek terms ;) ) or more like a gym?
Since people decide to go there to try their skills and it would be a one on one (or team agains team) situation which is predictable in a manner of speaking this could be a solution which would keep an civilicized enviroment while giving the option to try out - why not
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby GladDog » Tue May 08, 2018 10:23 am

It would be more like AE mission maps, some small, some huge, but based on existing maps. If the PvP cap is 5v5, then small maps would be fine IMO.
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Avatar PDM » Tue May 08, 2018 10:33 am

well I think we will find out eventually anyway
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Re: A formal request to exclude PvP

Postby Consultant » Tue May 08, 2018 11:34 am

We do plan to have PvP, and it will be in special areas, and players will only go there by choice. We plan for our PvP to be quite distinct from most of what is out there now, and we'll outline that later on, since PvP will launch well after the game gets going with PVE. In everything we do, we want to emphasize positive community and fun for the players.

It's a little too soon to become fearful that something we will add in a PvP scenario will ruin the game in some way, or cause PVE to be crippled or gimped in some way. There are actually a lot of answers to that sort of problem. I'd like to ask everyone to relax just a bit. Concerns about PvP can be real, but let's remember -- as devs we don't really hit you guys with a lot of surprises. We're going to be talking about PvP a lot, explaining what we thin would be fun to do, and getting (and using) community feedback before any PvP ever occurs. And that is still a couple of years away, so let's all take a deep breath here.


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